Imagine if the HUD footage and audio were released immediately after every mishap. The footage is already out in this case. One officer already fired?
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Shooting debrief discussion
- Thread starter Swanee
- Start date
I have responded to multiple fatal accidents involving alcohol, I have never seen that. When did that happen?
To actually be able to convict someone for a DUI, you need either a blood sample or a breathalyzer done in a more controlled environment which is actually certified and calibrated, not a field sobriety test or the breathalyzer seen in the video
I'm tired of the "he was just taking a nap" narrative, and the assertions by the family attorney that the police could have deescalated the situation by letting him walk home, or driven him home.
After they woke him up once, he passed out AGAIN at the wheel. I'm surprised they let him pull into a parking spot to do the field sobriety test. He was obviously fucked up.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the shooting after seeing multiple angles, but these dudes were just in a fight for their lives potentially. Does the officer know exactly what weapons the suspect is in possession of after the fight? Does he know what the status of his partner is? Maybe he did or didn't.
I wish the media would bring on more LE commentators that would plainly state that if you resist arrest, wrestle a cop to the ground, throw hands, and steal one of his weapons...it's in the range of possibilities that you might get shot, regardless of race.
Here's a video of when taking a "nap" in the drive-thru goes wrong. It involves former NFL running back Darren McFadden.
After they woke him up once, he passed out AGAIN at the wheel. I'm surprised they let him pull into a parking spot to do the field sobriety test. He was obviously fucked up.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the shooting after seeing multiple angles, but these dudes were just in a fight for their lives potentially. Does the officer know exactly what weapons the suspect is in possession of after the fight? Does he know what the status of his partner is? Maybe he did or didn't.
I wish the media would bring on more LE commentators that would plainly state that if you resist arrest, wrestle a cop to the ground, throw hands, and steal one of his weapons...it's in the range of possibilities that you might get shot, regardless of race.
Here's a video of when taking a "nap" in the drive-thru goes wrong. It involves former NFL running back Darren McFadden.
I don’t disagree. There were certainly other options they could have taken. My presumption is that While they may be legally insulated, they could still be fired for exercising poor judgment.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
Nearly all jurisdictions require that if you are over the limit/fail FST that you be taken into custody for a certain amount of time. Where I was it was 24 hour hold, part of the reasoning is that a person could end up getting behind the wheel and causing injury or death to themselves or another which then makes the officers liable. This exact scenario happened nearly 20 years ago with a civilian I worked with at Bangor sub base, he was pulled over, he blew just above the limit however because his friends had pulled over behind him the officer let them drive him home, he then had his wife drive him back to his car, he nearly made it home before running a stop sign, swerved to miss a car and hit a tree, this time he did go to jail.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
Good point FST or PBT are just indicators, not a confirmation of being under the influence.
Many people don't know that if you don't blow and they do a blood draw that you are the one that pays for that blood draw.
I respectfully disagree regarding what is highlighted in red above. Brosnan is down and his condition likely unknown by Rolfe when the foot pursuit began [see pic #1 below]...and if I was Rolfe, I wouldn’t be counting on backup at this point.
Pic #1:
Luckily, Brosnan’s condition was OK and he was able to get up and pursue...BUT Brosnan was well behind Rolfe [see pic #2 below]...and I seriously doubt if Rolfe was aware that Brosnan was in proximity.
Pic #2:
Uhh, no, it isn’t. But up until he was being handcuffed, all parties seemed to be respectful. And the first cop chuckled after asking the guy who was too drunk to drive, to drive his car out of the drive through line.
I get that once the struggle began all bets were off on the outcome, and they may well have fully followed procedures, and no idea of the criminal record of the guy going in. The citizen who died, possibly died “IAW NATOPS” so to speak. But my shortlist of things that may or may not have broken the chain, spitballing:
- The guy just needed to not be in a car in public. A taxi or relative to pick them up.
- The police could have properly subdued the man physically. Need more people? Call more people.
- They could have properly used the Taser, or just not let him get ahold of it.
- They could have stayed clear of him until he expended the Taser
- The tech now exists to make weapons only operable by the owner, so grabbing the gun or Taser does not put the cops or the rest of the surrounding people at risk
About 9 years ago now? North Carolina. An ambulance (or two) came out, and they took a blood sample there. Forget the final charge convicted on, but he spent a bunch of time in the county jail and wore an ankle bracelet for a year.
So what could they have done to be in better communication and more mutually supportive? It seems like they really were operating as two singles rather than a two man team.
He could have made the decision to not drive his car that night under the influence and/or tired.
He could have parked in a parking spot, turned the car off, and passed out before police even arrived.
He could have not argued with police about how he shouldn't be behind the wheel at that moment.
He could have not resisted or run when the police tried to arrest him.
He could have not grabbed for the police officer's weapon.
He could have dropped or tossed the weapon away from the police instead of carrying it with him.
He could have not turned his hips to put himself in a position to use the weapon on someone chasing him.
The tech to individually lock firearms through biometrics is still unproven for timeliness in life-or-death situations. My iPhone doesn't always unlock immediately when I rest my finger on it. Sometimes it takes a few tries, especially if it's wet/raining/sweaty. It also doesn't allow law enforcement the option of wearing gloves, which isn't fair to LE, given coronavrius and just all the dirt, grime, blood, trash, used needles, etc. they can encounter, not to mention that gloves prevent inadvertent fingerprints/ evidence destruction.
Earlier in this thread, there was a link to TMZ Sports. I clicked on this video:
It seems like a case study in what not to do when being questioned by police. The officer in the video is solo, no backup, and is about 40 lbs smaller than the subject. That subject (Breeland) could have easily been shot if the police officer thought he was going for a concealed firearm (in the Range Rover) or the officer's firearm. Even the "narrator" (woman filming) sees the obvious and tells him to stop resisting throughout the video.
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Well, of course. But from the first post in this thread kicking off the discussion, The ground rule is that you can't change the decisions or actions of the perpetrator.
I haven't googled on it, but the fundamental tech that would underly it is absolutely there. Doesn't have to be fingerprints either, so you could wear a glove. Or it could be that the glove itself is the required element, tied to a code in the weapon. Or some kind of and/or. To just throw up the hands and say "too hard"?
OK, so continuing the thread, should students be trained on how to properly be cuffed and arrested in high school? What actions to take and not take when pulled over or confronted? Some practice arrests? The time to figure it out is not when drunk in the drive through lane.
Black parents seem to understand this, ergo frequent reference to "the talk".
Does LEO "ROE" change when the suspect is drunk?
How many of us have had the moment of trying to get "that guy" (or been that guy) bock sheep? One second he's happy to listen to his friends and get in to the cab. The next second he's squirmed free, has stolen someone's shoes, and is running back to the bar. Next time you try and get him into the cab he's swinging at everyone. Now imagine that guy but instead of his buds trying to help him out it's cops. Point being is that drunks aren't thinking like normal people.
Sea story.
So it is Fleet Week in NYC, 1989 I think it is. We are out on the town in our SDBs, sober at the moment, and come up on a scene where a sailor is sitting on a curb, blood pouring out of his face after having had his shit kicked out of him. We hang with him, cops show up, we go with him to the hospital while waiting for guys on duty to come along.
He is drunk and belligerent and won't cooperate with getting his head X-rayed. Zero respect given to the two Ensigns ordering him to chill out (although he was polite about it). NY cop with us does a quick 360 sweep for witnesses, puts his hand on the sailor's neck, and then jacks the sailor right in the gut, causing him to exhale every last ounce of air in him. At this time he becomes very compliant and gets his X-rays.
Cop looks at us and says, "Hey, I'm a vet too, just trying to help him out."
I noticed that when the officer first went to cuff the suspect, he just started grabbing the guys hands as he was vaguely telling him he was under arrest. Perhaps a less traumatic approach might be to explain what was going to happen next before proceeding with the arrest/cuffing.
Fundamentally it's there but would you really want to risk your life on technology that isn't 100% mature? And even if it is 100% mature, what happens if/when it breaks? It would really suck to be stabbed to death because the RFID chip in my glove has the same success rate as the one in my CAC.