So How Do We Choose?

[wink]

I wasn't reffering specifically to the taxpayer or the Country in terms of profit. The defense industrial complex certainly makes alot of cash regardless of the outcome. Wasn;t Haliburton charging something like $250 to the .Gov per bag of laundry? I also remember some stories about contractors in Iraq blowing up brand new vehicles that only had a flat tire since they were on a cost plus.

Vietnam - 10 year long war, lots of money made there.
Grenada - we gained a friendly regime.
Bosnia - Has a Mcdonalds
Lebanon - Has a Mcdonalds
Haiti has no Mcdonalds, but there is one next door, does that count?

: )

Vietnam? I suppose you have knowledge of Defense lobbyists encouraging congress to pursue Vietnam. Would you rather Defense firms donate their goods and services to ensure it is a good war from which no one profited and the intentions of the US are not in question?
Grenada: Sure they are friendly They should be. Where is the monetary interest? We were trading with Granada before the liberation.
Bosnia: Have you been there? As of two years ago their were NO western chain/franchise restaurants, let alone American. There was maybe one recognizable western retailer of any sort. No American.
Lebanon: Don't know about the fast food business, but they sure haven't been buying a bunch of Boeing jets, financial services, Chevy's, or Intel chips. No money there.
Haiti: No, next door doesn't count.

Last time I looked, serious competitors and adversaries like Russia and China are buying loads of American stuff and it didn't require a war to get them to do so.

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

There aren't many wars for conquest anymore. At least by the USA. The last one was probably the Spanish-American War.

 

[MasterBates]

I suggest a new war of Conquest.

Why not, nothing else has worked in Africa.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Bosnia: Have you been there? As of two years ago their were NO western chain/franchise restaurants, let alone American. There was maybe one recognizable western retailer of any sort. No American.

While I normally don't agree with Trader, as of last year - there is a McDonald's in Bosnia.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...t-mcdonalds-gives-much-awaited-taste-of-west/

 

[Spekkio]

Trader, your thesis seems to be that we go to war when the military-industrial complex can benefit from it, but then you list countries that have at least one McDonald's restaurant as evidence for this claim. I don't follow.

 

[Brett327]

The McDonalds statement was sarcasm and posted to demonstrate that while no immediate short term economic gain (aside from the armament manufacturers) for the US may have been achieved, if you look at the impact on a longer term, in many cases a benefit becomes clear, - Bosnia now has a McDonald's.

In the most basic sense, the decision between war and peace in the overwhelming majority of cases not only through our history but in the history of warfare comes down to an economic benefit. It could be an economic benefit for the Country, it could be an economic benefit for various entities within the Country. As I said - follow the money.

Throughout history countries, regions, tribes have gone to war to take or control other peoples shit. What makes anyone think we are any different? It's actually a bit amusing when folks say "Oh we went into country X to spread democracy" or some BS like that. We went into country X to take or control their shit, the democracy talk is just an opiate for the masses and easier from a PR perspective to convince the public that its a worthwhile endeavor. "We are invading country X because geographically it would be a good location for a pipeline" or "they have resources we covet" or "We are going to war with country X because we want to open up that market and they should buy $$$$$ from our companies" Doesn't really play well with the populace and the folks who are going to do the bleeding and dying or thier families.

I'm curious how you see our involvement in Kosovo, given your stated views, and also through which mechanism the "military-industrial complex" applied pressure or input into the decision-making process to employ force in Kosovo.

 

[Spekkio]

Trader, I still don't buy your argument that "country x has a McDonalds, therefore we fought there for economic gain."

I think your point that we go to war if we stand to gain resources from it has merit in the many cases, but there are enough exceptions in recent history (Kosovo, Somalia) that it's clearly not the sole driving factor.

As far as Russia, it could be said that we went to war with them several times by proxy... Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan to name a few, and thus our motives in those cases were to contain communist Russia's influence.

 

[wink]

While I normally don't agree with Trader, as of last year - there is a McDonald's in Bosnia.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...t-mcdonalds-gives-much-awaited-taste-of-west/

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...t-mcdonalds-gives-much-awaited-taste-of-west/
I guess congratulations are in order. But there was nothing two years ago so this isn't break neck advancement of western investment or influance. Two years ago my son spent most a summer studying in Bosnia. One of the things he was most struck by was the very fact there was so little foreign investment. Serbia had done much better. At that time there were no MacDonald's or any western chain style restaurant. Oddly, there was popular Bosnian pizza chain called U2, for the band of the same name. We wondered if U2 knew about it or cared about the infringement.