STA in NROTC

[nfo2b]

Aw, TrunkMonkey, what's with the edit? That's okay, fortunately the thread response e-mail puts your message in it. And I laughed. By the way, you do know what movie that line is from, right? It's a modern classic for all of us "old guys" going through college. Oh, and thanks for the cigarette! :icon_wink

 

[Ex Rigger]

I guess my experiences are a little different than the other guys on this board. I am currently at Texas A&M University. I love it here and we are not integrated with the unit in any way. Our only responsibility is showing up on Thursdays, and showing up to the Navy/Marine ball. They want us soley focused on school. The OC's here are close and we all get together often for BBQ's, football games, and whatnot. We have several hundred midshipmen but we do not interact with them, which alot of you seem to think is unfortunate but personally with only three years to complete a degree I don't have time for much else. During the Fall and Spring we meet once a week for about an hour.....and that is the complete extent of our responsibility. During the summer we do not meet at all until the Fall semester starts back up. They work with us on class conflicts and do not hawk on us nor make us do childish things, they expect good grades and us to pass the PRT. Other than that, they are involved with the Corps of Cadets to pay much attention to us at all. Hope this helps, and I know it's not like this everywhere. I have friends up at Oklahoma and they have had several guys get sent back to the fleet, they muster for drill three times a week, PT twice a week, clean the stadium after football games, and have to have midshipman write their active duty evals.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I honestly think you are being short changed. Although you may think it is a good deal, you are learning and applying absolutely NO LEADERSHIP. So I guess you'll be out in the fleet learning leadership in the "trial by fire" method. Good luck...I hope it works out for you.

I guess my experiences are a little different than the other guys on this board. I am currently at Texas A&M University. I love it here and we are not integrated with the unit in any way. Our only responsibility is showing up on Thursdays, and showing up to the Navy/Marine ball. They want us soley focused on school..

I don't think that the enlisted eval thing is correct. The enlisted EVAL is part of their permanent service record and this is usually the Advisor's responsibility (LT). I am raising the BS flag here...
ea6bflyr

I have friends up at Oklahoma and they have had several guys get sent back to the fleet, they muster for drill three times a week, PT twice a week, clean the stadium after football games, and have to have midshipman write their active duty evals.

 

[nfo2b]

I honestly think you are being short changed. Although you may think it is a good deal, you are learning and applying absolutely NO LEADERSHIP. So I guess you'll be out in the fleet learning leadership in the "trial by fire" method. Good luck...I hope it works out for you.

Agreed. And I've been in for 12 years. There is ALWAYS something to be learned about leadership, and although I've had my share of enlisted leadership responsibilities, I am learning alot about what leadership means as an officer, which is much different than my enlisted experience. Not to knock the Aggie above (well, aside from the fact that he's an Aggie:icon_tong ), but I agree that he's missing out.

I don't think that the enlisted eval thing is correct. The enlisted EVAL is part of their permanent service record and this is usually the Advisor's responsibility (LT). I am raising the BS flag here...
ea6bflyr

Correct. Our enlisted evals (the official ones that stay in our ESR) are written by our LT. advisor, while the battalion evals, which don't mean diddly once we leave here, are written by our battalion chain of command.

 

[Ex Rigger]

I understand what you guys mean but I don't feel the leadership encountered in an NROTC unit greatly foster's "leadership growth", unlike that learned from enlisted experience. I was our company commander for two semesters but all that meant was that I emailed the STA-21 guys what we were doing for the following Thursday, and handled our PRT scores. The battalion commander, IMO, other than being in charge of several hundred doesn't have that big of a job other than organizing things pretty similar to what one would do when in charge of a program when enlisted. I.E. PT program, forming a battalion up, conducting inspections, accountability, passing of word. I do understand what you guys mean by leadership as an officer but I don't think that forming a bunch of eighteen year olds up and having fake evals thru the battalion exactly fosters leadership growth. Personally, handling and organizing a bunch of squared away, motivated, 18 year old corps of cadets kids is a hell of alot easier than actually dealing with young airmen, seamen, in the fleet. (Which we have all done) I understand your opinions and just do not feel the same.......Not to knock the Wildcat above (well, aside from the fact that he's an Wildcat :icon_tong ), but I agree that he's going through alot of crap he shouldn't have to when forced to complete a degree in three years.

 

[Ex Rigger]

And as far as midshipmen learning the enlisted points of view, we quite often brief the midshipmen on things we've learned in our enlisted career and how those can be applied, in addition to sea stories and experiences with our assorted branches of the Navy. This is alot of times what we do on our Thursday's.

 

[Crowbar]

I thought the same thing until I got here (MECEP). Actually to be honest, I expected the mids to be a bunch of half ass turds who couldn't count their nose and get the same number twice. I figured the only people with any leadership skills would be the priors. Boy was I wrong. One of my best friends I have ever had is somebody (a mid) that I met here. Here I am, a SSgt, and my buddy is a 21 yr old, who we both taught each other more about leadership than I ever imagined possible. I've been impressed with the majority of the mids, too. There's always that 10% that suck, but that's everywhere.
I see what you're saying about the Corps of Cadets, but if your unit is doing things right, you will learn from those billets. More importantly, you will teach the people around you how to conduct themselves. If, as a Company Commander, that's all you did, well, that's how they run their unit and more power to 'em. But I agree with the others who said that they learned from their NROTC billets. I did.

 

[VarmintShooter]

I think the mids generally have more to learn than the priors do. Not that I didn't learn from my billets, but giving them to someone else might have sent them to the fleet better prepared. I like to think that I passed on some good tricks and tips though, not just stories of Pattaya.

I guess what I mean is, I already had some leadership experience when I showed up, so giving someone else my billets might have sent them to the fleet on more even ground with the priors going through.

Oh, and stadium cleanup bit butt.

 

[snizo]

Sometimes OCs are put in leadership positions because they think other people (or more people) could learn from them better that way...people aren't always put in a position for their own benefit.

 

[nfo2b]

Sometimes OCs are put in leadership positions because they think other people (or more people) could learn from them better that way...people aren't always put in a position for their own benefit.

Another very valid point. Very true, it goes both ways.

 

[TrunkMonkey]

Aw, TrunkMonkey, what's with the edit? That's okay, fortunately the thread response e-mail puts your message in it. And I laughed. By the way, you do know what movie that line is from, right? It's a modern classic for all of us "old guys" going through college. Oh, and thanks for the cigarette! :icon_wink

LOL. I fired off a response, and then realized that I didn't know you that well, and I didn't want to start a MIDN vs. OC war, which is apparently easy to do. And hey, for the record, I am a nasty Midshipman, but I am about to finish my degree in 3.5 years, and for most of my college career, I worked 20-30 hours a week at some of the crappiest jobs ever (security guard, Pizza Hut) in order to pay for my rent/food. Getting home from work at 2300, just in time for three hours of studying and three hours of sleep before rolling out to motivating Naval science lab was a blast. Must be nice to actually have a salary while trying to go to school and deal with whatever the batallion hands to you. Just my point of view... I'm glad we have OCs around though, because I know for a fact that I wouldn't have learned a tenth of what I have about leadership/the Navy/life in general without them. Most of ROTC is bull****, and as far as I'm concerned one of the only parts that isn't was the chance to learn from those who have Been There Done That. Oh yeah, and you're welcome for the cigarette

 

[Country Boy]

Not to try and steal this thread but does anyone know anything about Univ of Wisconsin-Madison's NROTC unit? And as for the whole OC vs. Middie discussion, I'd like to thank both sides for making valid points. You really gave me a better perspective. Thanks

 

[Fmr1833]

I do understand what you guys mean by leadership as an officer but I don't think that forming a bunch of eighteen year olds up and having fake evals thru the battalion exactly fosters leadership growth. Personally, handling and organizing a bunch of squared away, motivated, 18 year old corps of cadets kids is a hell of alot easier than actually dealing with young airmen, seamen, in the fleet. (Which we have all done) I understand your opinions and just do not feel the same.......Not to knock the Wildcat above (well, aside from the fact that he's an Wildcat :icon_tong ), but I agree that he's going through alot of crap he shouldn't have to when forced to complete a degree in three years.

That's the thing, you don't understand it because your experience us strictly enlisted. Your mindset (which is unfortunately being bolstered by your unit staff) is that you somehow deserve to be an officer just because you were an enlisted man. Nope, not so, 'cause if it was they would have just slapped some Ensign bars on you and sent you off to sea. Don't be one of these OC's that thinks that he or she somehow has all this pressure that non priors don't understand. You get paid, they don't. You have fleet experience, it's still an unknown to them and to top it all off, I know plenty of Mids who have graduated in three years because they wanted to, so that isn't some awe-inspiring statistic. I may sound hostile here...because I am. Those Mids that you rag on because they are "forming a bunch of eighteen year olds up and having fake evals thru the battalion" are definitely learning more about troop handling and leadership than someone who only has to place a phone call for musters and show up once in a while to confirm his pulse. As my Battalion's AdminO I work with our BNCO (an OC) and we both have been told repeatedly that our unit staff deliberately trains the seniors to be Div-o's through the sheer amount of bs work they make us do. As an E-5 in the fleet how many divisions did you lead again? No knock on what you DID do, but it sure wasn't lead a division. If the vacation thing works for you, great, hope your men don't suffer for it when you hit the fleet. I saw too many officers out there with the attitude that they were better than those around them...looks like another one is coming down the pike.

:banghead_

 

[nfo2b]

LOL. I fired off a response, and then realized that I didn't know you that well, and I didn't want to start a MIDN vs. OC war, which is apparently easy to do.

?????? I don't see this thread as an OC vs. MIDN war. Is this really what you think?

And hey, for the record, I am a nasty Midshipman, but I am about to finish my degree in 3.5 years, and for most of my college career, I worked 20-30 hours a week at some of the crappiest jobs ever (security guard, Pizza Hut) in order to pay for my rent/food. Getting home from work at 2300, just in time for three hours of studying and three hours of sleep before rolling out to motivating Naval science lab was a blast.

Alright, sweetie, first of all, let me state that I have never called a middie "nasty"--well, there was that one who never showered after PT--which in Arizona is an absolute necessity--SHE was nasty. Other than that, I hold no malice or contempt for any Midn's based on the fact alone that they are what they are. Ya dig?
Second of all, I commend you on your accomplishment of completing your degree in 3.5 years. Two questions, though: what is your major, and what is your point? Are you attempting to minimize the difficulties that many OC's are going through trying to get theirs in 3? If so, then I invite you to take a look at my degree plan and see how many 19 and 20 hour semesters I have. It's awesome that you are able to do this while working long hard hours, and very little sleep, but guess what--that's college!!!!! Here's a challenge for you: try balancing 19 and 20 hour semesters of solid engineering classes with raising a 1 year old and a 3 year old, while keeping your marriage with your spouse intact, and maintaining a 3.9 GPA. Trust me, we don't want to have this "I worked harder than you" battle, becuase you just can't win.

Must be nice to actually have a salary while trying to go to school and deal with whatever the batallion hands to you.

If my tone sounds a little harsh, this comment is why. Prior to this, I had NO opinion of you, other than your rather amusing previous post that you edited out. But after I read this, I immediately saw something in you that I have seen in a handfull of middies at my battalion--immaturity and a tinge of jealousy. Yes, it IS nice to recieve a salary for going to college while having my tuition and books paid for. But you know what? I've been in over 12 years! I've paid my dues, and I busted my a$$ for the Navy for all of those 12 years. I didn't get STA-21 for just being your average Seaman Timmy or Petty Officer Lazybutt! I got it for a reason. You want to talk hard work and long working hours, you little prima donna? Try a 3x6 watch rotation every day for 7 straight weeks in the Main Machinery Room of an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf where it's 120F in the works space and 95F in berthing 24/7. Not enough for you? Try performing a complete overhaul on a Main Condensate pump on the same carrier, in the same Gulf, standing the same watch rotation, only this time, working 20 hour days 18 days in a row! This is not an "I'm so salty" rant, but the fact that you seem to be attempting to minimize what many OC's have gone through to get here, while at the same time implying that we have it easy just because we get a salary for going to school makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. And that, my arrogant little child, is, in your own words, "Just my point of view." :icon_rage

 

[NukeWife]

Well said, nfo2b.