STA in NROTC

[Fmr1833]

I completely agree with NFO2B. Of course, the OC's and other priors have paid their dues and THAT is why they are where they are. But in my opinion - and this is what I was trying to egt across earlier - once you are at school you still have to earn those bars. NFO2B is a great friend of mine and he knows the respect I have for priors (I am one after all) but I get hacked off when one walks through the door thinking he or she has already made it.

 

[nfo2b]

...once you are at school you still have to earn those bars... I get hacked off when one walks through the door thinking he or she has already made it.

Agreed. I think I said something to that affect much higher up in this thread, it's just that a couple of TrunkMonkey's comments really got me miffed.
And TrunkMonkey--nothing personal. Consider this a middie learning experience--be careful with the assumptions that you make, the stereotypes that you cast, and the comments that follow them. And this advice goes for both middies AND OC's in all NROTC units--unless you are 100% sure, NEVER what any fellow officer-to-be (or any member of the military for that matter) has been through to get to where they're at attain the benefits they enjoy. Ya dig?

 

[Turbeau]

you are too much nfo2b im right on with you

 

[snizo]

Neither OCs nor midshipmen are any more qualified than the other to be in the ROTC program when they get there.

Neither OCs nor midshipmen are any more qualified than the other to be an ensign in the USN when they get commissioned.

The USN realizes this since both OCs and MIDN go through the exact same program.

nfo2b - yes you put your time in and earned your place in the STA21 program, but the midshipmen you are apparently angry with also worked hard to get where they are. You worked to prove in the fleet that you deserve a chance to become an officer while they continue to pay you. The mids worked hard in high school to prove that they deserved a full ride to whatever school they are at and that they are worth having in the navy.

Trunk - sorry you had to work 30 hrs a week because the stipend doesn't cut it, but the fact of the matter is - everyone in ROTC chose to be there. If you can't hack it (OC or Mid), then leave.

Some people not in ROTC get full rides from the university, some don't. Some students pay their own way through college, some have parents foot the bill. No two people are in the same boat - that is just the way it is.

 

[nfo2b]

Apparently, snizo, you completely missed my point as the crux of my argument flew over your head entirely. But after a long night trick or treating with my kids, I'm way too tired to repeat things that I've already said, and clarify their meanings. So please, I implore you, go back and read TrunkMonkey's post and my post very carefully, and diligently try to extract the key points from them. Then, you may understand why your post seems a bit...well...superfluous.

 

[bch]

FMR1833 and nfo2b, those are some of the best posts that have ever been posted on this website. I hope a good deal of mids and STA's read this thread.

I think I can say this with some certainty, I have seen a lot of new JO's now (2yrs (i know not a whole lot but enough to get a good cross section)) The mids with attitudes, typically got their balls chopped off at some point in flight training, and they get humbled.

The priors who thought they were all high and mighty, for no other reason than the fact that they were prior, usually got an ass chewing or two, and they tended to be the guys who ahd a hard time with the monkey skills.

I know this sounds corny, but if you got a bad attitude in officer training, you are going to have a bad attitude as an officer. IT WILL EFFECT YOUR FLIGHT SCHOOL EXPERIENCE. I know,I have watched many get knocked down throughout API, primary and advanced.

my .02

 

[VarmintShooter]

... The priors who thought they were all high and mighty, for no other reason than the fact that they were prior, usually got an ass chewing or two, and they tended to be the guys who ahd a hard time with the monkey skills.

Kind of a stereotype?

Out of the six priors from my unit, one DOR'ed out of API, five got their first choice platform. Just a counterpoint to the monkey skills thing (although my monkey skills weren't an 80 NSS by any stretch).

True though, if the only reason you think you are better is a couple years of service, you deserve to get slapped down.

 

[bch]

Kind of a stereotype?

Out of the six priors from my unit, one DOR'ed out of API, five got their first choice platform. Just a counterpoint to the monkey skills thing (although my monkey skills weren't an 80 NSS by any stretch).

True though, if the only reason you think you are better is a couple years of service, you deserve to get slapped down.

Hey man, I did not make the generalization that priors had problems with monkey skills. If you read, I said the ones with attitudes usually had problems with monkey skills. Granted I have not been in every primary sqd all of the time flight training has been conducted, but I have seen it quite a bit.

 

[ea6bflyr]

One thing we all agree on is that we all have a varied past or background. The point is that we can all learn from each other. Sure, most OC's have real world 101 experience, but most upper class Midn have College 101 experience.

I have seen a lot of Midn, OC's and MECEP's get kicked out of the program due to poor academic performance, unsat PFA/PFT performance, or lack of military aptitude. For goodness sakes, please take care of each other and look out for your shipmates. You should all have the same goal: COMPLETE THE DEGREE and GET YOUR COMMISSION. Lets not ruin this thread with the MIDN v. OC debate...Your are both being paid (at some level) to get a commission.
ea6bflyr

 

[boobcheese]

Everyone just take a second to unbunch your panties and realize that we all have our cross to bear. First let's be honest, a lot of the responsibilities pertaining to ROTC affiliation are just BS that serve no other purpose other than getting people used to dealing with BS. Beyond this however there are some real opportunities to grow as a leader within the unit but you will only get out of it as much as you put into it. Those that take advantage of these opportunities and are able to take the most away from their experience in ROTC are the ones who will excel in the fleet, not because ROTC experience is the single best medium for teaching leadership but because these are the same people that will make the most of any situation they find themselves in. So whether you are an OC, MIDN, MECEP etc if you are just going through the motions now thats likely what you will do when you hit the fleet. Take that for what its worth and for the record I am an OC.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Nicely said boobcheese!
ea6bflyr

 

[nfo2b]

Yes, boobcheese, you've summed it up nicely. I apologize for starting (and even fueling) the fire that this thread is becoming, so I'll let it go. I agree with your sentiments exactly, and also with those of bch and ea6bflyr.
And I also want to clear something up, in fairness to TrunkMonkey.
I recently had some offline contact with her and found out that she is a middie at my unit, and doesn't fit the category of midn that I thought she fell into when I read her post. In reality, she's a very mature and capable midshipman at our unit, and a very nice person to boot. I think she chose her words poorly, leading me to misinterpret them. I stand firmly by everything that I said, but in hindsight, now that I know the source, I should not have responded so harshly. I've already apologized to her for that.
So, there are at least two lessons that we can all learn (or be reminded of) from this:
1) Choose your words carefully, and
2) In an anonymous medium such as these forums, don't make any assumptions about anyone until you actually know them.
These go for me, TrunkMonkey, and everyone else here. Most of us already know them, but often fail to put them into practice.
Just goes to show you some of the problems that can arise from the cloak of anonymity provided by this medium.
'Nuff sed, I'm out...

 

[snizo]

nfo2b ...

missed your argument?

your pt #2 was what I was saying - it is never just 'i work harder' or 'i have kids to look after too' - there is always more to it that you dont know. all i was saying was that you complained about people making assumptions against you ... all the while you were making assumptions about them too...

 

[nfo2b]

Yes, snizo, you're right, and I've admitted that. So I'm sorry I jumped on you (figuratively speaking, of course) last night. And I realize that you were repeating what I said, I just didn't appreciate the tone. I was pretty tired and cranky--way too many little ghosts and goblins running around asking for candy.