Stuck On What To Do On The Start Of My Aviation Career

[Swanee]

That’s not CAS

The AF has a weird "everything is CAS" mentality, especially with AI from RPAs. There are some cultural reasons for this, largely stemming from the lack of enabling flight leadership to make decisions, or from so many high value targets that required Combatant Commander or higher approval authority. "The CFAC/CAOC can see the feed, someone has to clear them..."

That is beginning to go away as we are pulling out (giggity) of certain places, yet are maintaining a light attack/ISR CAP in place.

At the end of the day it's still shooting bad guys, and getting a hard on only for doctrinal CAS is like hooking up with a supermodel and complaining that she's not a redhead- especially for a guy who is Winchester after two passes and lucky if he isn't bingo after the first one.

 

[Swanee]

I think his post was pretty clear. Contrary to popular belief you can become a Marine and an airline pilot - happens all the time.

After seeing the QOL and bank account of guys who joined the Guard and airlines at 25 vs the retired guys around here who joined the airlines at 45, I've come to realize that there is indeed a smart and dumb choice, especially if you're presented with those options before joining.

 

[Hotdogs]

After seeing the QOL and bank account of guys who joined the Guard and airlines at 25 vs the retired guys around here who joined the airlines at 45, I've come to realize that there is indeed a smart and dumb choice, especially if you're presented with those options before joining.

Depends on your own value system and definition of smart and dumb. If you're insinuating that flying in anything other than the ANG and going to the airlines is dumb than I'd say that is a little shortsighted.

 

[Griz882]

My thing is I'm 25, the age cutoff for Marine pilots is 28( of course there are waivers), I know AF is 33

If you go to OCS in the fall...it won't be a "thing."

 

[Swanee]

Depends on your own value system and definition of smart and dumb. If you're insinuating that flying in anything other than the ANG and going to the airlines is dumb than I'd say that is a little shortsighted.

I'm saying that if your ultimate goal is the airlines it's shortsighted to put that goal on hold for AD military flying- especially USMC Aviation.

If the airlines are just a job opportunity in your post USMC life, then so be it. But joining the USMC to further a goal of flying for the airlines is dumb. You are joining a service that doesn't have the capability to give you a career that gives you the hours in the type of airplanes that you need to go to a legacy airline without seeking additional flight time and training externally.

 

[bbailey10]

I'm saying that if your ultimate goal is the airlines it's shortsighted to put that goal on hold for AD military flying- especially USMC Aviation.

If the airlines are just a job opportunity in your post USMC life, then so be it. But joining the USMC to further a goal of flying for the airlines is dumb. You are joining a service that doesn't have the capability to give you a career that gives you the hours in the type of airplanes that you need to go to a legacy airline without seeking additional flight time and training externally.

Is the USMC notorious for not giving adequate flight time compared to other branches? Or is it every branch that doesn't give enough flight time to make the jump to air lines. Currently looking at ANG and Navy myself. Just curious.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Is the USMC notorious for not giving adequate flight time compared to other branches? Or is it every branch that doesn't give enough flight time to make the jump to air lines. Currently looking at ANG and Navy myself. Just curious.

Negative to both. He is saying that if your PRIMARY goal is airlines and ca$h then it makes sense to get to airlines ASAP. You will build seniority quicker, make more money faster and quality of life improvs sooner. Incurring a 10 year obligation in active duty USN/AF/USMC pipelines hinders your ability to get that seniority sooner.

TYPE of flight hour is also going to be hugely important for airline hiring. You have a pretty big chance of flying helos for USN and USMC, which if we're being honest, is pretty worthless for getting an airline job. You can make the jump but there are way more hoops than the fixed wing guys.

 

[Swanee]

Negative to both. He is saying that if your PRIMARY goal is airlines and ca$h then it makes sense to get to airlines ASAP. You will build seniority quicker, make more money faster and quality of life improvs sooner. Incurring a 10 year obligation in active duty USN/AF/USMC pipelines hinders your ability to get that seniority sooner.

TYPE of flight hour is also going to be hugely important for airline hiring. You have a pretty big chance of flying helos for USN and USMC, which if we're being honest, is pretty worthless for getting an airline job. You can make the jump but there are way more hoops than the fixed wing guys.

And soon enough, multiengine jet PIC won't exist in the USMC.

 

[zippy]

Is the USMC notorious for not giving adequate flight time compared to other branches? Or is it every branch that doesn't give enough flight time to make the jump to air lines. Currently looking at ANG and Navy myself. Just curious.

Generally yes, the Marines Corps is known for not giving adequate flight time to its pilots. Not only for airlines, but for OPNAV/NATOPS safety minimums as well.

 

[Griz882]

Is the USMC notorious for not giving adequate flight time compared to other branches? Or is it every branch that doesn't give enough flight time to make the jump to air lines. Currently looking at ANG and Navy myself. Just curious.

You need to concentrate on surviving the winters at Buzzards Bay! After that you can swim over to Camp Edwards and fly helicopters for the 126th...the MAANG turned in her F-15's for UAVs.

Just kidding, good luck.

 

[Jim123]

And soon enough, multiengine jet PIC won't exist in the USMC.

That never seemed to hurt F-16 guys (or Harrier guys) when it came to hiring. I have a feeling Marine jet people are going to be just fine.

A few ripples of panic and terror passed through the green tacair to airline crowd a couple years ago, when the FAA was mulling over classifying JSF and Harrier flight hours in the "powered lift" category (as opposed to "airplane;" other categories include rotorcraft, glider, lighter than air, etc.). That would imply those pilots might have to pay out of pocket to shore up their flight time requirements for ATP minimums—perish the thought—an indignity previously endured only by second class citizens such as helicopter pilots, NFOs, and civilians. ISTR the feds came around to the idea that all derivatives of both the P.1127 and X-35 are essentially airplanes because 1) they use their wings to fly and 2) they use runways to takeoff and land. Ergo, guys may count such flight experience as airplane time.

 

[Python]

That never seemed to hurt F-16 guys (or Harrier guys) when it came to hiring. I have a feeling Marine jet people are going to be just fine.

Marine F-35 guys will be fine. Hornet guys, not so much. (Speaking about total number of hours for the airlines. I know you were talking single engine hours.)

 

[Swanee]

That never seemed to hurt F-16 guys

Seems like they all went to Southwest. So not a bad gig at all.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

That never seemed to hurt F-16 guys (or Harrier guys) when it came to hiring. I have a feeling Marine jet people are going to be just fine.

A few ripples of panic and terror passed through the green tacair to airline crowd a couple years ago, when the FAA was mulling over classifying JSF and Harrier flight hours in the "powered lift" category (as opposed to "airplane;" other categories include rotorcraft, glider, lighter than air, etc.). That would imply those pilots might have to pay out of pocket to shore up their flight time requirements for ATP minimums—perish the thought—an indignity previously endured only by second class citizens such as helicopter pilots, NFOs, and civilians. ISTR the feds came around to the idea that all derivatives of both the P.1127 and X-35 are essentially airplanes because 1) they use their wings to fly and 2) they use runways to takeoff and land. Ergo, guys may count such flight experience as airplane time.

Powered lift is a thing. I had to show T-45 time to get a commercial because the harrier wasn’t an airplane according to the FAA. Fortunately no airlines see it that way and harrier guys get hired just fine

 

[Hotdogs]

But joining the USMC to further a goal of flying for the airlines is dumb. You are joining a service that doesn't have the capability to give you a career that gives you the hours in the type of airplanes that you need to go to a legacy airline without seeking additional flight time and training externally.

Just playing devil's advocate here since there is a ton of negative connotations with specifically Marine but also Navy aviation. I am not a company man but any means, but I got a lot out of my time with the Marines besides flight hours. I would temper your previous experience with the USMC based off of your time in training commands and the VMU. TR time is now being accepted by airlines as powered lift (Unless something has changed again), and recent force structure changes will increase the number of VMGR squadrons in the next decade. There will be a reduction in HMH and HMLA squadrons that will increase more TR and FW opportunities in the mid to long term. This does not include all of the B-Billet flying opportunities VMR, MATSG, HMX, TPS, VMX, Station and other flying billets that have large FW time building opportunities in an 8 year contract.

I have not met a pilot who preformed well in a fleet squadron and was not able to stay in the cockpit for his B-Billet. Not saying it doesn't happen, but a pilot shortage means most pilots have to stay on DIFOP orders most of the time. I agree that if the only thing you want do is fly for the airlines then go the ANG, but if you're looking for a scenic route with other pro/cons then Marine aviation isn't a bad gig nor is the Navy. It's just not as exciting as +10 years ago when we were in sustained combat operations.