Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[Scruff]

Navy: NO
USMC: Yes

 

[Griz882]

I actually did just that. I (intentionally) joined the Army National Guard as an elderly infantryman. Better yet, I gave up my navy commission to do so! Why? To start with, the education benefits were spectacular. I got a Master's, two Graduate Certificates, and a Ph.D. without a penny in student loan debt while he Army paid my tuition. Next, it was fun. Weekends were like a hobby and as a senior NCO I got to do all the cool stuff but skip the typical officer admin stuff. Lastly, I have an over-developed sense of patriotism. I ended up doing two years in Iraq, two in Afghanistan, and one more in other GWOT locals. I got some great full-time trainer gigs, and even got to spend four months with a helicopter company as a door gunner!

Now that I am a grey-area retiree I have a lot of fantastic memories, will have a retirement almost equal to what I would have had from active duty, I have a chest full of medals and drawer full of photos. I have seen places I would have never seen, have a doctorate hanging on my wall...with my name on it...and a really fun civilian job that will offer me even more in retirement. When I die I can actually list all three services on my headstone!

So, yes, I did join the Marines without aviation, would have joined the Navy (in retrospect) without aviation, and did join the army without it.

 

[wink]

Navy, probably no without aviation. Coast Guard was my close second choice if I was going to do anything else. Coming out of high school wanted to join the Air Guard as a crew chief or Air Defence radar operator and then go NAVAIR after. But I let my parents enfluance me too much. They thought it would be a distraction from college and might derail me from a commission. Of course they meant well and it all turned out. But I wish I had done it my way.

 

[Pags]

I guess this is more of a personal question, but would you still have joined the military if you'd known you couldn't be in aviation?

Yes. As a young Mid I gave a lot of consideration to the SWO EDO option. If I had to make the decision again the choice between SWO EDO and Aviation would still be a tough one.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Navy, probably no without aviation. Coast Guard was my close second choice if I was going to do anything else.

That was pretty much my dilemma coming out of high school. I had appointments to both Navy and CGA, and the 'what if I'm not aviation PQ'ed at graduation?' was one of the considerations. If I knew then what I know now, as far as pros and cons of the respective services' non-aviation options, I would've gone Coast Guard.
I rationalized that:
1) I had 20/15 eyes and what are the odds they'll be too bad even for NFO by the time I graduate? (not knowing there are a lot of ways to NPQ besides the eye chart)
2) Worst case scenario, either way I'd be driving a ship and that's not so bad (being a cutter guy is way different from being a SWO)
3) I'm from Florida....Connecticut is too fucking cold (so's Maryland, as it turns out)

 

[Python]

I guess this is more of a personal question, but would you still have joined the military if you'd known you couldn't be in aviation?

No

 

[Flash]

I guess this is more of a personal question, but would you still have joined the military if you'd known you couldn't be in aviation?

Definitely, I didn't even think I could fly until my junior year because my eyes were so bad (my eyeglasses were over the limit for SNFO). I flirted with joining the Army and USMC for a little bit but the Navy was always the one I focused on. Knowing what I know now I would join the USCG if aviation was not an option, the catch would be aviation would not be an option at all in the Coast Guard while the Navy still is due to my eyes.

2) Worst case scenario, either way I'd be driving a ship and that's not so bad (being a cutter guy is way different from being a SWO)

I worked with some Cuttermen and we talked quite a bit about cutter life, apparently there are some good types of ships to be on and some not so good ones. What I got from them was the smaller the better when it came to cutters, the bigger ones (WHEC and WMEC's) were much more like SWO life than I realized. They were all CO's of the smaller patrol boat cutters and were loving the life though.

 

[Caesium]

Awesome career

Pretty dumb question, but do they let you wear your NA wings on your Army uniform?

 

[Griz882]

Pretty dumb question, but do they let you wear your NA wings on your Army uniform?

My "career" was more blundering, looking for something to do, and luck, than "awesome." I just happened to survive it all.

Technically, on my dress uniform, yes...but not on a tactical uniform. I did not because to do so as an enlisted man would, 1). Cause too many questions to answer. 2). Throw the entire ensemble off kilter. 3). Make me kind of an asshole to the other enlisted soldiers (I jokingly made some young lieutenants call me "Doctor-Sergeant" because of my civilian education). Equally, my time in naval aviation was really short (I was injured in an accident and never flew beyond the HTs) so wearing the wings would be kind of weak on my part. I did know another guy who was a B-52 pilot ages ago and came in as an enlisted guy and wore his USAF wings...funny, most guys thought they were an old form of enlisted aircrew wings! Some former SWOs and Sub officers assigned to intelligence shops and the like tended to wear their Navy bling. A lot of ARNG UH-60 and CH-47 drivers displayed theirs with great pride on their helmets or flight suits but not on other uniforms because you can only wear one badge from each "group." I am equally sure many ignored this rule!

In short, when I was a Marine I was a Marine. When I was a sailor, I was a sailor. When I was a soldier, I was a soldier. The only military decoration that followed me all the way through was my USMC Good Conduct Medal.

 

[Caesium]

Well it's good you survived. I didn't know it was possible to go from officer to enlisted.

 

[VMO4]

The only military decoration that followed me all the way through was my USMC Good Conduct Medal.

Interesting, as a prior enlisted Marine, who is a civilian pilot, managed to earn a doctorate degree (J.D.), and has been very blessed in life , the two proudest things I own, are my USMC Good Conduct Medal, and my Honorable Discharge.

 

[Flash]

Well it's good you survived. I didn't know it was possible to go from officer to enlisted.

There are some rules and regs against it in at least some of the services but the National Guard doesn't operate under all of those rules and regs.

 

[GroundPounder]

Well it's good you survived. I didn't know it was possible to go from officer to enlisted.

I can't believe how old this makes me sound, but it was relatively common in the Army when I first enlisted ( 1986). My first platoon sergeant was prior enlisted, earned a commission during the war in Viet Nam, and then reverted back to his highest enlisted rank during the post war draw down.

I've been out of the loop now for over 25 years, but many commissioned Army aviators would go Warrant when they left AD and joined a guard unit.

 

[wink]

Pretty dumb question, but do they let you wear your NA wings on your Army uniform?

Met a retired O-6 Army pilot with Navy wings. In the 60s Rucker was maxed out so some Army guys went to Pcola. He even CQed in T-28s. Although he had the Army Aviator MOS, nothing in his training record reflected completion of Army flight school or being winged at Rucker. He wore gold wings throughout a 25 year active duty Army aviation career.

 

[Flash]

I can't believe how old this makes me sound, but it was relatively common in the Army when I first enlisted ( 1986). My first platoon sergeant was prior enlisted, earned a commission during the war in Viet Nam, and then reverted back to his highest enlisted rank during the post war draw down.

It is likely because your platoon sergeant held a commission in the Army of the United States (AUS), the official name for the conscription/draft force of the United States Army (USA), which was only a temporary rank. Folks could hold a commission or a different rank in the AUS than what they were in the Regular Army, the Reserves or the National Guard. They were often colloquially known as 'wartime commissions/rank', similar and in some cases the same as 'battlefield commissions' but not in all cases, and allowed folks to advance more rapidly than they would in more normal circumstances. Many senior wartime leaders to include Eisenhower were promoted in the AUS and only later were their ranks made permanent in the Regular Army. In Eisenhower's case he was a full General in the AUS but still a Lieutenant Colonel in the Regular Army at one point and it wasn't until 1946 that his rank of General of the Army became a permanent one in the Regular Army even though he was promoted in the AUS to that rank in 1944.

Clear as mud yet? In the Navy we still do that to a limited degree when LDO's who don't meet the time in grade requirements can revert to their enlisted rank when they retire.

I've been out of the loop now for over 25 years, but many commissioned Army aviators would go Warrant when they left AD and joined a guard unit.

If they became a CWO2, or a WO2 for you Army types, or above they retained their commissioned officer status and it is a lot easier to do that than transition from commissioned to enlisted.