Not if you verify it initially.
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Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)
- Thread starter mo7stanley
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Not if you verify it initially.
You may say that, but winged people have done it. With task saturation, after a long flight, dialing in the frequency of the parallel runway's localizer is only an inch away.
Well, there is always that.... :icon_roll
I have a question regarding ADF approaches you guys are discussing. Are ADF approaches common for military A/C? We don't even have ADF radios installed in the trainers I teach IFR students in, I know the FAA is beginning to phase out NDBs at airports with others types of approaches as well. Are ADF approaches common overseas? Thanks.
Yes. You are welcome...
Civilian side - FAA says ADF idents need to be constantly monitored while shooting an ADF approach. After the initial ID, VORs do not. The difference is that VOR receivers have built in self-test/monitoring features and ADFs do not. With a VOR, if you lose the signal, you get an off flag on your CDI so you are only worried about initially making sure you get the proper station.
I assume Tacan would probably be like ADFs since there are no CDIs just RMIs.
The 767 tunes, IDs and monitors for me through the FMS. Yet there are some instructors that still insist that we do it manually even though both the FAA and Boeing say it is not required. The FMS will let us know if something is wrong.
We don't even use the actual ADFs on board for ADF approaches overseas. We use the FMS with a GPS overlay. Makes ADFs as easy as any other approach. We plug in the MDA and we even get a derived glide slope.
Every (a big whopping 3) aircraft I've flown w/ a TACAN has had a CDI and I'm pretty sure all the other Navy series of -60s have the same thing, so you still get the failure notice (independent of what the FAA might have to say).
Nope. You treat the TACAN just like a VOR.
I have my own technique for tuning and identifying the station, properly named the Godspeed Tune and Identify Monitor Method, or GTIMM for short.... Tune up your Vortac, read the bearing and DME, reference chart and GPS. If it looks right within a dozen degrees or a couple DME, you are good to go.
Or you could do it the way of that NAZI sim instructor we've all had.... As you are troubleshooting a hydraulic failure, a fuel leak and runaway elevator trim on your hook down ILS final (weather is at mins):
INSTRUCTOR: WHAT STATION DID YOU JUST TUNE UP?
Me: Kingsville, NQI, 125Xray sir.
INSTRUCTOR: Well how do you know it's working?
Me: Becuase it just is, sir.
Instructor: WRONG ANSWER! Get out your IFR Supplement and turn to the morse code page.
*Flipping through pages when radalt goes off*
INSTRUCTOR: WHY IS YOUR RADALT GOING OFF?
Me: Because i'm looking in my IFR sup sir.
INSTRUCTOR: WELL FIX YOUR RADALT FIRST, DUMMY.
*put down ifr supplement, punches in new radalt setting, pick up ifr supplement*
Me: Well it says it should be a dash, dot, dot *instructor interrupts*
INSTRUCTOR: WHY IS YOUR BINGO FLASHING? (as approaching decision height)
Me: Because I didn't reset it, I'm in my IFR sup sir, and I have a fuel leak.
INSTRUCTOR: WELL RESET YOUR DAMN BINGO FIRST, DUMMY.
*put down ifr supplement, punch in new bingo, pick up ifr supplement*
Me: Bingo reset, sir, 500. Station properly identified, NQI, sir.
INSTRUCTOR: WELL HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS GIVING YOU PROPER DME??
Me: Sir, it doesn't matter, we are on the final portion of the ILS approaching decision height.
INSTRUCTOR: NONSENSE, WE DONT ASSUME ANYTHING IN THIS BUSINESS!
Me: Well sir, it looks about right, we are about a mile out, and the GPS says the same thing.
INSTRUCTOR: BULLSHIT. CALCULATE YOUR SLANT RANGE TO STATION. CONVERT YOUR ALTITUDE FROM FEET TO MILES, TAKE THAT AND YOU CAN EITHER LOOK AT YOUR VELOCITY VECTOR AND TAKE THE TANGENT OF YOUR *interrupts*
Me: But sir, I don't have a calculator. (Instructor pauses sim).
INSTRUCTOR: YOU'VE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME! YOU DONT HAVE A CALCULATOR? THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN AUTOMATIC DOWN IN MY DAY. BACK IN VIETNAM, WE ALWAYS CARRIED A SLIDE RULE WITH US, ON EVERY FLGIHT. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO NEED TO PROPERLY TIM A STATION...
*sim unpauses without notice, causing nosedown runaway trim to slam the jet into the deck during the last few seconds of the approach*
INSTRUCTOR: AND YOU'RE DEAD, all because you weren't prepared to properly TIM the station......
Or you could do it the way of that NAZI sim instructor we've all had.... As you are troubleshooting a hydraulic failure, a fuel leak and runaway elevator trim on your hook down ILS final (weather is at mins):
INSTRUCTOR: WHAT STATION DID YOU JUST TUNE UP?
Me: Kingsville, NQI, 125Xray sir.
INSTRUCTOR: Well how do you know it's working?
Me: Becuase it just is, sir.
Instructor: WRONG ANSWER! Get out your IFR Supplement and turn to the morse code page.
*Flipping through pages when radalt goes off*
INSTRUCTOR: WHY IS YOUR RADALT GOING OFF?
Me: Because i'm looking in my IFR sup sir.
INSTRUCTOR: WELL FIX YOUR RADALT FIRST, DUMMY.
*put down ifr supplement, punches in new radalt setting, pick up ifr supplement*
Me: Well it says it should be a dash, dot, dot *instructor interrupts*
INSTRUCTOR: WHY IS YOUR BINGO FLASHING? (as approaching decision height)
Me: Because I didn't reset it, I'm in my IFR sup sir, and I have a fuel leak.
INSTRUCTOR: WELL RESET YOUR DAMN BINGO FIRST, DUMMY.
*put down ifr supplement, punch in new bingo, pick up ifr supplement*
Me: Bingo reset, sir, 500. Station properly identified, NQI, sir.
INSTRUCTOR: WELL HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS GIVING YOU PROPER DME??
Me: Sir, it doesn't matter, we are on the final portion of the ILS approaching decision height.
INSTRUCTOR: NONSENSE, WE DONT ASSUME ANYTHING IN THIS BUSINESS!
Me: Well sir, it looks about right, we are about a mile out, and the GPS says the same thing.
INSTRUCTOR: BULLSHIT. CALCULATE YOUR SLANT RANGE TO STATION. CONVERT YOUR ALTITUDE FROM FEET TO MILES, TAKE THAT AND YOU CAN EITHER LOOK AT YOUR VELOCITY VECTOR AND TAKE THE TANGENT OF YOUR *interrupts*
Me: But sir, I don't have a calculator. (Instructor pauses sim).
INSTRUCTOR: YOU'VE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME! YOU DONT HAVE A CALCULATOR? THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN AUTOMATIC DOWN IN MY DAY. BACK IN VIETNAM, WE ALWAYS CARRIED A SLIDE RULE WITH US, ON EVERY FLGIHT. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO NEED TO PROPERLY TIM A STATION...
*sim unpauses without notice, causing nosedown runaway trim to slam the jet into the deck during the last few seconds of the approach*
INSTRUCTOR: AND YOU'RE DEAD, all because you weren't prepared to properly TIM the station......
What a fucking prick.
Those people should be fired, or at the very least have to answer to your squadron's/wing's STAN board. Completely unacceptable.
Brett
EXACTLY. Even if he had a case about your checking the morse code identifier (which I'd agree should be checked or at the VERY least you explain your own sanity check method), his personal harassment could cause ONE debrief item (not confirming NAVAID ID) to MULTIPLE debrief items (getting behind on the other more serious tasks at hand).
Besides, isn't jet advanced focusing on being single-piloted? He should let you fly the damn plane until you make an egregious mistake which warrants mid-sim coaching.
I've never been so glad I wasn't a jet guy.
Our sim instructors were just old and anal. They're weren't dicks.
Fixed for you, and I think I know a couple of those guyss too. It's just the jet school harrassment package.....I figure that is the price we have to pay to not get drilled on systems, not have difficult briefs, and not get bogged down in other minutae of instrument or airspace regs (like our helo brothers)
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