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Super Hornet Thread
- Thread starter zab1001
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my 2¢
for what the Corps needs with a lot of A-G & a little A-A, it'd be nice if we bought Supers instead of the JSF ... actually, it'd be nice if the Navy donates all of their F/A-18C's to the Corps as the Navy buys & replaces them with Supers ... actually, it'd be nice if the Corps got rid of VSTOL all together, dump the JSF, and bought A-10's (updates with modern avionics, call it A-10C) & AC-130's for CAS & FAC(A) ... ahem, i digress
semper fi
for what the Corps needs with a lot of A-G & a little A-A, it'd be nice if we bought Supers instead of the JSF ... actually, it'd be nice if the Navy donates all of their F/A-18C's to the Corps as the Navy buys & replaces them with Supers ... actually, it'd be nice if the Corps got rid of VSTOL all together, dump the JSF, and bought A-10's (updates with modern avionics, call it A-10C) & AC-130's for CAS & FAC(A) ... ahem, i digress
semper fi
Piperdriver
Member
......then you we wouldn't need the AF
Piperdriver said:
To what shoot at our tracks no thanks. Just buy more Cobras and all the CAS needs will be met (I only sort of mean this) I hope we end up with some supers not a lot of faith in using only one TMS and a VTol platform for all our f/w cas. Variety is good
Variety is also a logistical nightmare. If the JSF performs as advertised, then it should be our only platform. The Harrier never lived up to its billing, but it has always mystified me why we're married to the F-18, an aircraft that is difficult to fwd base. The name of the game is expeditionary, and we should have an aircraft that fits the bill. I think the Navy made a mistake in buying the superbug, the last of the big-ass, conventional fighters . The thing is huge, and definitely not low-observable at all.
Phrog: I believe a big selling point is that it has a lower radar cross section than the C/D model... not stealth, but an improvement.
jarhead said:
ding, you guys need the A-10, dump the -C's and buy A-10's
Rhino's are great for the Navy, we need a larger platform aircraft to replace the Tomcat. However, the E/F for the Marine's, well that can be argued either way. IMHO, Cobra's and Warthogs would be all you need.
my $.02
A couple of questions:
Why aren't the Marines looking forward to a new R/W gunship? The cobra is old; I know the Z model is supposed to be great and all, but when were the airframes originally produced?
Is the JSF over-rated? What will happen to that "stealth" when it sustains battle damage? How can you expect to have a CAS aircraft not get hit with small arms?
Why aren't the Marines looking forward to a new R/W gunship? The cobra is old; I know the Z model is supposed to be great and all, but when were the airframes originally produced?
Is the JSF over-rated? What will happen to that "stealth" when it sustains battle damage? How can you expect to have a CAS aircraft not get hit with small arms?
na, we'd still need the AF to transport our Warriors to the warzones ...Piperdriver said:
.............
ah Prong, i'd say we'll disagree on most of this, but it's interesting to hear different perspectives. i will say that everybody is jumping on the "expeditionary" bandwagon right now, and even though "Joint" is being preached, all the services are striving to be different from one another. without getting off the topic here, this is the way i see it, the Marine Corps has it's WSO Mafia (i saw it in action not too long ago out at MAWTS). that "Mafia" will not let their job go away ... which it will if the Corps buys all JSF and does not buy the F/A-18G to replace the Prowler. so what i (as do a few others) think will happen is the Corps will let the Navy R&D the F/A-18G, then buy it when it becomes available, then the maintenance & logistics will be be in place for the Corps to buy F/A-18F's, in order to keep the FAC(A) mission that the Marines pretty much owns right now, as well as CAS. just my opinion. what i'd like to see is the Navy continue to buy Supers to replace their F/A-18C's, and then give us those C's ... that way our legacy Hornets will last until we get the JSF.phrogdriver said:
a sidenote, the SuperHornet has a lower RCS than the legacy Hornet, the F-15, and depending on loadout, lower than the F-16 (which is pretty low itself). bigger doesnt mean higher RCS, if that was the case, the F-22 wouldn't be considered stealth as it is just as large as the F-15. "Stealth" is a misnomer & is overrated as there are ways to detect "stealth"
semper fi
The airframe itself was the J model first one with two engines but that is the desing really the whiskeys have been around since 86. The Zulu really is for all intetns and purposes a new aircraft with some components taken from the W this allowed it to be funded as an upgrade vice a new acquisition. Everyone I know air and ground are looking forward to the Zulu. ITs FLIR will see a man at about 13km has a laser designator as well as an Ir pointer (great tool for CAS and target hand off) More ordnance and it is quiter
It is very hard to hit a fast moving aircraft with small arms missiles and radar guided AAA are a much bigger threat hence the stealth. I think it will be a great addtion to our inventory my only concern is that we are putting all our fixed wing CAS assets in one basket waht happens if it gets red striped. When the Harriers were donw there was a det of Hornets forward deployed in case the MEUs needed F/W CAS if we only have one TMS we lose that flex.
It is very hard to hit a fast moving aircraft with small arms missiles and radar guided AAA are a much bigger threat hence the stealth. I think it will be a great addtion to our inventory my only concern is that we are putting all our fixed wing CAS assets in one basket waht happens if it gets red striped. When the Harriers were donw there was a det of Hornets forward deployed in case the MEUs needed F/W CAS if we only have one TMS we lose that flex.
Speaking from a maintenance point of view, the harriers are pieces of sh1t sorry to say. It invovles so many man hours in upkeep. Looking at replacing a motor, you have to call the Airframes shop to remove the wing before the Powerline guys come in to remove th motor. That is a pain in the a$$. Check this out, it only takes 1hr 45min to drop and replace a 18 motor get the pilot in the air.
Let me tell you a little history about the harrier and the v-22 in case you all did not know. This concepts were not the United states from the get go. They were copied from Great Britain. That is why we had problems with them when they first brought them into service. The Marine Corp was sticking helo pilots into harriers at first and they were loosing the things left and right until they trained their piltos properly. Secondly we had a problem with the take off until that was resolved. Speaking of the V-22. This concept was first adopted by Britain, but in order for the congress not to seek permission to copy the concept, they asked the miltary contractors to design something which was totally against aerodynamics, so that in adverse weather conditions, them things were blown by cross winds like it was cool.
The F/A 18 will always be the smartest thing the Marine Corp ever spent its money on. It is good for Air to Air and Ait to ground. Should the Corp, get the E/F's probably not, but we cannot always take pass downs from the Navy- in any case like somebody said above let the navy give us the C and D's we will be glad to upgrade it avionics and use it to kill Challie. The Corp does not need anything fast and furious.
To the A-10's. Those things can be the best air to group machines. You are basically flying a gun. That would be a smart pick for the Marine Corp, because this STOVL concept is not really the best. The engines on this things FOD like it is cool and also there are too many moving parts that assist in flight. In the case of a system failure, the pilot might not have too many options. Too many moving parts have a higher possibility of system failure. On other thing, the Marine Corp needs an aircraft with 2 engines and not one, so that incase there is a flame-out or what not we can still get the bird home.
just my 2 piece
Let me tell you a little history about the harrier and the v-22 in case you all did not know. This concepts were not the United states from the get go. They were copied from Great Britain. That is why we had problems with them when they first brought them into service. The Marine Corp was sticking helo pilots into harriers at first and they were loosing the things left and right until they trained their piltos properly. Secondly we had a problem with the take off until that was resolved. Speaking of the V-22. This concept was first adopted by Britain, but in order for the congress not to seek permission to copy the concept, they asked the miltary contractors to design something which was totally against aerodynamics, so that in adverse weather conditions, them things were blown by cross winds like it was cool.
The F/A 18 will always be the smartest thing the Marine Corp ever spent its money on. It is good for Air to Air and Ait to ground. Should the Corp, get the E/F's probably not, but we cannot always take pass downs from the Navy- in any case like somebody said above let the navy give us the C and D's we will be glad to upgrade it avionics and use it to kill Challie. The Corp does not need anything fast and furious.
To the A-10's. Those things can be the best air to group machines. You are basically flying a gun. That would be a smart pick for the Marine Corp, because this STOVL concept is not really the best. The engines on this things FOD like it is cool and also there are too many moving parts that assist in flight. In the case of a system failure, the pilot might not have too many options. Too many moving parts have a higher possibility of system failure. On other thing, the Marine Corp needs an aircraft with 2 engines and not one, so that incase there is a flame-out or what not we can still get the bird home.
just my 2 piece
unfortunately the way things are written the AF will not give up their claim to the warthog. I wonder what the possibilities of adding a tailhook and trying to get them on and off of a big deck w/o cats. i also wonder what adding folding wings to the frame would do for surviveability.
Have you ever seen a landing gear on a 14 and compare that to the one on a 15. I can wrap my hand around the landing gear of an f-16. They tried landing some 16's on carriers during the first golf war and they landing them into the net, but then they could not take off not because they did not have a launch bar, but because the impact of landing affected the airframe greatly.
to use the A-10's they have to change the motor and the airframe, but i would not doubt that building an aircraft after a proven concept would be cheaper than going to the drawing board all over again. They will need new motors, new landing gear system which would mean new hydraulic package, then they would probably want to go all out and put better avionics system, so really they would be doing the super hornet deal, where they call it a hornet but it is totally different from the regular hornet except for the looks. It is possible but they are more interested in the V-22 right now.
Something else you might like to know, the marine Corp's version of the JSF is 1000 ibs overweight, so the enginers are at the drawing board ones again
to use the A-10's they have to change the motor and the airframe, but i would not doubt that building an aircraft after a proven concept would be cheaper than going to the drawing board all over again. They will need new motors, new landing gear system which would mean new hydraulic package, then they would probably want to go all out and put better avionics system, so really they would be doing the super hornet deal, where they call it a hornet but it is totally different from the regular hornet except for the looks. It is possible but they are more interested in the V-22 right now.
Something else you might like to know, the marine Corp's version of the JSF is 1000 ibs overweight, so the enginers are at the drawing board ones again
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