TAD or PCS?

[Beans]

Riiight, don't count on that either. I came from grad school last year, got down to API in June, didn't class up for API till end of September.

OK understand... I should qualify what I say and not try to make definite claims about something I do not control. With that in mind I will say this: I have been told by both my detailer and the Flight Management at API that I will have to wait 1-2 weeks to take my NAMI, and then I will start API immediately afterwards. In other words, they told me I can't bump other people for the NAMI physical, but I skip to the front of the line for API. Maybe they're wrong, no big deal.

 

[navywareagle]

You got me there. I don't know. I had a rotc commission and my rotc unit really messed me up. My initial appointment orders were to my rotc unit and our unit processed me as if I had PCS orders to Pensacola and when I showed up to Pensacola, I was told that I was actually TAD. My unit also inputed me in DEERs as a dependant instead of active duty. I got a check today for my move compensation and even though I only got compensated for 600 lbs, I still got a check for $1800.

 

[insanebikerboy]

OK understand... I should qualify what I say and not try to make definite claims about something I do not control. With that in mind I will say this: I have been told by both my detailer and the Flight Management at API that I will have to wait 1-2 weeks to take my NAMI, and then I will start API immediately afterwards. In other words, they told me I can't bump other people for the NAMI physical, but I skip to the front of the line for API. Maybe they're wrong, no big deal.

Yeah, we were all told the same thing, and then they peppered us out along the classes. There were about 10 of us, got there in June, and the first classed up in July, the latest in October.

 

[Beans]

Yeah, we were all told the same thing, and then they peppered us out along the classes. There were about 10 of us, got there in June, and the first classed up in July, the latest in October.

Well, I hope they don't do that with me, but thanks for the info. I'll be a little more careful with what I choose for my 600lb to NASP, then. Care to weigh in on the PCS vs TAD issue? How'd they handle your situation?

 

[HH-60H]

I thought that I had PCS orders here but I was wrong. I learned a lot at the PSD breif. If you're a pilot, you have TAD orders, period, end of story even if you see "permenant duty station" written on your orders. If your a NFO, you have PCS orders. If you're a pilot and you happen to be hear for longer than 6 months, then you can go to PSD and have your orders changed to PCS orders and get the extra compensation that comes with it so keep all of your receipts for your move. You'll get compensated for your moving truck (if you choose to rent one), gas moving here, and up to 600 lbs of stuff. You can move more if you want (I moved 3500 lbs of stuff down), but they only compensate you for 600 lbs. If you have follow on orders, then you are also entitled to per diem only if you can prove that you aren't living any where permenatly (i.e. sign a lease for an apt) so if you have follow on orders, move into a friend's extra bedroom or find a house that has an extra bedroom for rent.

I have no reason to doubt any of your statements OR to doubt the accuracy of your recollection of what PSD told you. With that said, I have a couple questions.

Does the piece of paper in your hands say Permanent Change of Station? If so, those are PCS order, perhaps you are at an I-stop (intermediate stop), but ultimately they ARE PCS orders.

If they say TAD (whatever it stands for, I forget), where are you TAD from? You have to be assigned to some command. Are you still officially assigned to your ROTC unit or somewhere else? When you finally get to your next duty station when will you get PCS orders? To officially change duty stations, you need to have PCS orders.

I don't know the answers to these questions, but I bet that piece of paper you have does.


As an aside, after reading this post and your follow on posts, I would guess you have PCS order with at least one Intermediate stop. That would explain why you are not getting some of your PCS entitlements. Those will happen when you get to your "ultimate activity" where all of your PCS paperwork/process will be closed out. However, that does not change the fact that you have PCS orders, you just are not at your "ultimate activity." I hope that all makes sense.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Ok, so here's how it supposed to work. If you're coming from initial accession (i.e., USNA, ROTC, etc), and you are not married, then you'll be TAD to API. As such, you'll get the 600 lb allowance. Once you're finished with API you'll be sent PCS to wherever you go from there from either your home of record or Pensacola, whichever you choose. This is because you are going to your initial permanent duty assignment and also because you haven't been permanently assigned anywhere yet. As was stated earlier, if you get hung up down here and it takes longer than 6 months to get through API and you are on TAD orders, go to PSD and make them change it. That way you'll get reimbursed for your time. They have to change it too, since there's some issues about TAD orders longer than 6 months.

If you are married, it's different since you have dependents. Also, if you've already been stationed somewhere (i.e., grad school, or some other place before you came to API, but after you were comissioned, and OHARP, etc, doesn't count) you have to be PCS'd down here. Plus, if you're prior enlisted you should get a PCS move, although sometimes they'll try and get out of paying you the dough. They can't do that since as prior enlisted you've already been moved from your home of record once, and the Navy can't move you from your home of record more than once. That applies to grad school or other stations, since moving there was a PCS due to being longer than 6 months and was either from your home of record or your NROTC unit, USNA, etc.

As for Beans and his PCS orders, API should be listed as an intermediate activity, and if I was a betting man I'd say they list the time as something like
"For Approximately 140 days" or something like that (notice it's a number lower than 180).

Specifically at Beans, first, read your orders. If it says you have an intermediate activity at API and then an ultimate activity at Trawing5 (permanent duty station Fl, Milton), that means you're PCS'ing down here, so bring all your trash. If for some reason the Navy decides to send you to Corpus, guess what, another PCS.

Hope that helps clear up some things.

 

[HH-60H]

Ok, what you are saying mostly makes sense, but I still have a couple comments/questions. Obviously, this does not affect me in any way, but I am asking because some of this stuff (mostly from other posts) does not jive with my experiences and my occasional study of the JFTR. I am in no way saying that I am correct, only that something doesn't smell right.

As an aside, I HIGHLY recommend that people take a little time to read the Joint Federal Travel Regulations. These regs cover almost all of this stuff and delineates the "rules." I have had to dig through them many times because PSD has been AFU.

RANT: I think the PSD concept is horrible and has resulted in an overall degradation of service to the service members. What was supposed to create efficiency and reduce redundancy has actually removed the accountability required in effective customer service . /RANT

Anways onto the questions:

Ok, so here's how it supposed to work. If you're coming from initial accession (i.e., USNA, ROTC, etc), and you are not married, then you'll be TAD to API. As such, you'll get the 600 lb allowance.

So, where are you TAD from? ROTC/USNA? If so, your ROTC unit/USNA is still accountable for you? I know some units have a hard enough time managing the personnel physically located at the unit, how do they do that when you are at API? You have to be assigned somewhere.
When do you get your actual PCS orders?

As was stated earlier, if you get hung up down here and it takes longer than 6 months to get through API and you are on TAD orders, go to PSD and make them change it.

You might be oversimplifying this process, but I am pretty sure PSD can't just "change" TAD orders into PCS orders. All officer orders I have ever seen come from BUPERS signed by VADM Harvey (or his predecessors)

Everything else you said makes total sense to me.

 

[insanebikerboy]

So, where are you TAD from? ROTC/USNA? If so, your ROTC unit/USNA is still accountable for you? I know some units have a hard enough time managing the personnel physically located at the unit, how do they do that when you are at API? You have to be assigned somewhere.
When do you get your actual PCS orders?

I dunno, I tried to figure that out myself but it's hidden in the accounting data. I wasn't a true yeoman, just worked in their office before I went to USNA so I know the why, just not the how. I've still yet to get a straight answer on the who owns you question. I guess the SNA's are just in a "void" :icon_tong

You might be oversimplifying this process, but I am pretty sure PSD can't just "change" TAD orders into PCS orders. All officer orders I have ever seen come from BUPERS signed by VADM Harvey (or his predecessors)

Yeah, I was oversimplifying it a good bit. There's a bit more involved, but it's mainly on PSD's part. The gist is that PSD won't even think about you and paying you unless you go and get in their crawl about it. Otherwise, it's just money lost.

As an aside, I HIGHLY recommend that people take a little time to read the Joint Federal Travel Regulations. These regs cover almost all of this stuff and delineates the "rules." I have had to dig through them many times because PSD has been AFU.

Couldn't agree more. While parts of the JFTR are archaic, reading it and getting an idea of how things are supposed to work is a good idea. And besides, what better to do while waiting for API to start?

 

[Gatordev]

Well, I hope they don't do that with me, but thanks for the info. I'll be a little more careful with what I choose for my 600lb to NASP, then. Care to weigh in on the PCS vs TAD issue? How'd they handle your situation?

I would guess that you'll be a priority since you're not a new accession. Don't hold me to that, but I'm guessing STUCON will track the grad school/retreads so they get moving quicker than a guy who just checked in from ROTC/USNA/OCS.

 

[Beans]

@ Gatordev: That's what I have been told. And I don't plan on holding you to it, unless you're the internet alter-ego of the person I called last week who actually has a say in the matter.

I also keep forgetting that all the new accessions have to do IFS in Floribama. I'm already IFS complete, which should make STUCON all happy inside.

@ IBB: Orders read thoroughly the minute I got them and I even went super-geeky on it with my highlighter. It says exactly what you said, and I know 100% it is a PCS move to Whiting w/ intermed. stop @ NASP. Up to 600lb to NASP, the rest to storage until I move to a place in Milton. I really wasn't worried about my situation, but rather hoped your input would clear things up for snake020 and for wareagle. But now thanks to you and HH60H, the murky waters of moving for all cases seem to be much clearer. Thanks guys.

I downloaded the JFTR... but 700 pages?

 

[HH-60H]

I downloaded the JFTR... but 700 pages?

Well as the name says it is "Joint" so it covers all of the military services and "Federal" so it also covers the entire DoD (all the civilians) . SO it covers a gigantic amount of people and circumstances. Take a look through it, and if you can't find the meaningful sections, I can point you in the right direction. I can't do it right now because I don't remember the correct chapters, but I am sure I would remember after skimming the table of contents.

 

[tk628]

I am in the same boat as wareagle. I was a Dec rotc grad, and SNA and my crap got jacked way up, even after I sent my orders off to the TMO office(air force, figures). The TMO office that we worked through for all moves, "miscouseled" me into having a PCS move so I moved 4000 pounds (on a 10000 limit) of crap down to p'cola, I sent the paper work in and got my sweet $3000 check, I thought I did everything right, crossed all the t's and dotted the i's.

Well once I was getting out of p'cola the HHG people told me my stuff was jacked up and I was only getting 600lbs out of Pensacola since I should have only got 600 in, no biggie right? Well I took the 600 left a bunch of stuff in FL and ate the cost, all in all I moved like 2000lbs to Oklahoma with me. Well when I sent in the paper work for the second move, they redid my first claim and my entitlement went from $4000 to $900, and so not only did I not get paid for my second move which was about $800 on 600 pounds I have a bill for about $2500 of what I owe the government. So I'm not going to be getting paid for the next 3 pay periods. I'm in the process of fighting it because I have the 2278 which said that I was authorized, and there is something on my initial orders talking about PCSing, and if I was authorized in error I was still authorized in my opinion and that the opinion of the ADC I'm talking to, but time shall tell on that one. The kicker is had I had the government move the 4000lbs originally, they would have eaten the cost on the misauthorization, and I would have been authorized for 4000lbs out of Pensacola.

For what its worth, it's a good lesson to learn early I guess, and a nice welcoming into a career of jacked up moves, and hassles.

 

[insanebikerboy]

....getting screwed....

If you have the actual signed and/or stamped papers saying you were authorized the PCS move, keep fighting it. Since you have the orders plus the authorization, you have a foot to stand on. If it had just been someone in an office somewhere saying "yeah, you were authorized a PCS" it's almost impossible since you have no proof.

Just for sake of comparison, if you had only been authorized a TAD but still had gotten paid for the PCS, then that's an example of having to pay back the money. From the details you gave from your case, you should be able to keep your dough.

 

[jollygreen07]

And besides, what better to do while waiting for API to start?

Drink.

 

[navywareagle]

I'm hoping that I didn't get overpaid. If tk got $4000 for 4000 lbs and I got $1850 for 3500 lbs, then maybe I didn't get overpaid. I did only move my stuff 270 miles though. I'll just pay off bills with the money and start putting more away in savings incase they need money back. You'd think that with as many people that look at copies of your orders during the moving process, someone would catch an error like this.