The Doctor is in! Ask a Flight Surgeon!

[StJP4Us]

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I glean from what you said is that you did the Spirometry and the allergy test post-MEPS? You also did not provide MEPS with medical documentation stating you don't have dry eyes? You have to look at it from their perspective, they evaluate you based on what they see in front of them medically speaking, so according to their records that you provided; You had asthma, a peanut allergy, and dry eyes at the time of evaluation.

I would bet if the information they wanted was provided to them along with your medical history before you went in for your MEPS appt, this would be a different story. I did not require any waiver for asthma, but my spirometry was done in 2005 so there was a long history of not having asthma before my enlistment in 2015. MEPS should have requested a doctors note if you claim to not have an issue with prior diagnoses, but if you never stated they were no longer issues they wouldn't even know to dig further.

I would recommend doctors notes being very specific now, stating something like, "patient has been asymptomatic for XYZ since 2010" etc...

Correct, those 2 tests are what they asked for AFTER MEPS. Before MEPS they requested a PFT and Methacholine Challenge Test. As for dry eyes, they dug through my records some more and came up with that DQ before I went to MEPS and didn't ask for anything post MEPS.

I needed the waiver to even go to MEPS, so I provided everything to go to MEPS and I provided everything they wanted after MEPS. I have a long history without asthma too, since I was 12.

I've already provided crystal clear doctors notes to them. Them being the SG. MEPS is not communicating with me right now. The SG has denied me even though I provided exactly what they wanted. Showing nothing. So I'm lost. But the flight doc I am talking to is confident we can overturn this. I just want to get as much info as I can before going into this.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

To preface this I want to say my dad was an AF officer and I was treated at military/TRICARE hospitals my whole life. This means I had to submit every single medical record in my life (about 300 pages). I just finished MEPS (was a battle to even get there, 9 months of back and forth, requests for additional information, the whole 9 yards) and my SG waiver just got denied for asthma, peanut allergies, and dry eye syndrome and I don't know why (there was no info on why it was denied). After I finished MEPS, the SG requested 2 more tests from me and said that I may meet waiver criteria pending successful completion of the tests. These 2 tests were a pre-post bronchodilator spirometry, and an allergy test to confirm no peanut allergy. I passed them both with no problem, does anyone know why there would be a denial? Here is a little more info about me:

Asthma - Was diagnosed as a kid but all symptoms subside at age 12 and never resurface. This is documented in my medical records. The issue is inhalers were prescribed to me as a precaution until I was about 21. The kicker here is my medical documents state that it was my mom who ordered them. My medical file literally states "language barrier between patient and mother, mother won't let patient speak". I never needed these inhalers but my mom insisted to the doctor that I have them for emergencies. It is noted in my file that after age 12, "never uses, keeps 1 in case of emergency".

The SG also requested a methacholine challenge test from me prior to letting me take my physical at MEPS. I took that and passed with flying colors. I took another one 2 years ago for my own knowledge to make sure I didn't have asthma. Passed that one with flying colors too, all these tests were sent to the SG.

Peanut Allergy - I had peanuts when I was 3 years old and my mom thought I looked funny and took me to the ER. Demanded an epi-pen. Never was used. Literally ate peanuts since I was 6 with no problem. Just took a allergy test and oral food challenge test to prove I'm not allergic, passed with flying colors.

Dry Eyes - I had PRK about 6 years ago and went to the doctors office 6 months after the surgery to get a refill on eye drops. I guess this was coded as dry eye syndrome so I could get the eye drops. This is normal after PRK too, it's not like I'm requesting them 5 years after my surgery complaining about dry eyes.

I guess I am lost at this point. Why would the SG deny me if I've passed everything and meet all the criteria? Am I missing something? I'm going to meet with a flight surgeon to go over my packet and resubmit everything in a neat tidy document so it can carry more weight. I just don't want this to be the end of the road for me. Any insight is appreciated!

To get clarification are you saying MEPS or NRC medical denied your waivers, and who is SG, in all my years of recruiting never heard that term used.

 

[StJP4Us]

To get clarification are you saying MEPS or NRC medical denied your waivers, and who is SG, in all my years of recruiting never heard that term used.

Sorry, the Surgeon General - SG. I think thats BUMED?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Sorry, the Surgeon General - SG. I think thats BUMED?

It is referred to as a BUMED waiver but really it is N3M or the medical arm of NRC, your recruiter or processor should be able to ask specifically "what documentation is needed for him to be PQ", in cases like yours that is the only way I was able to get good answers.

 

[StJP4Us]

It is referred to as a BUMED waiver but really it is N3M or the medical arm of NRC, your recruiter or processor should be able to ask specifically "what documentation is needed for him to be PQ", in cases like yours that is the only way I was able to get good answers.

So when he looked in the system it only said "denied - applicant DQ'd for the following". Is that normal that they don't give out reasons?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

So when he looked in the system it only said "denied - applicant DQ'd for the following". Is that normal that they don't give out reasons?

for the letter in the system yes, it is basically a letter and they form fill what the rejections are, if specifics are know it requires an email, if your recruiter knows the system and has made contacts it is much easier as I would just call N3M and ask them but I developed that relationship over time.

 

[StJP4Us]

for the letter in the system yes, it is basically a letter and they form fill what the rejections are, if specifics are know it requires an email, if your recruiter knows the system and has made contacts it is much easier as I would just call N3M and ask them but I developed that relationship over time.

Oh ok, that would make sense then why the flight surgeon who is helping me out on this said he feels confident I'll go through.

Would you have any idea though why if I provided everything they wanted and nothing was damning they would still reject me? My flight surgeon said my records are so messed up that it kind of looks like I'm trying to hide stuff or lie. Would a reviewer see my file and say "nope way too much stuff to read, rejected"?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Oh ok, that would make sense then why the flight surgeon who is helping me out on this said he feels confident I'll go through.

Would you have any idea though why if I provided everything they wanted and nothing was damning they would still reject me? My flight surgeon said my records are so messed up that it kind of looks like I'm trying to hide stuff or lie. Would a reviewer see my file and say "nope way too much stuff to read, rejected"?

unfortunately what that flight surgeon feels doesn't matter, the call is up to N3M, I saw the CDR at N3M tell the CO (a Captain) of a Naval Hospital that one of his sailors didn't meet the requirements to be commissioned, the sailor could stay enlisted but couldn't become an officer, the CO was not pleased but it wasn't his call.

They will review everything, but sometimes something is found in the records that is a DQ and is doesn't make it on the letter, that is why it is important to have the recruiter or at least someone from the NRD ask directly "what documentation or test will get him a PQ".

 

[StJP4Us]

unfortunately what that flight surgeon feels doesn't matter, the call is up to N3M, I saw the CDR at N3M tell the CO (a Captain) of a Naval Hospital that one of his sailors didn't meet the requirements to be commissioned, the sailor could stay enlisted but couldn't become an officer, the CO was not pleased but it wasn't his call.

They will review everything, but sometimes something is found in the records that is a DQ and is doesn't make it on the letter, that is why it is important to have the recruiter or at least someone from the NRD ask directly "what documentation or test will get him a PQ".

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions, I appreciate it!

 

[StJP4Us]

I had childhood asthma and can share my experience.
I was familiar with the NAMI waiver process and went ahead with getting the PFT and MCT done before OCS. The tests were complete at a naval hospital, but no waiver in hand yet.
Fast forward 11 months and I'm sitting at medical in OCS and the flight doc wanted to do the tests all over again. After some back and forth he accepted my previous tests and told me they're just barely valid. A requirement came out that year requiring PFTs and MCTs be completed within one year of waiver submission.
Another fun fact, MEPS doesn't route waivers to NAMI. BUMED will compare your entry physical to NAMI's waiver guidelines and give you the greenlight for SNA/SNFO if they think you meet the criteria. BUMED declined my first physical for a misinterpretation of the NAMI waiver guidelines, but that's another story for another time. Your official waivers are routed at OCS.
If you're worried about the tests and want to gauge what they're like before OCS then try them before arriving. If you are familiar with them and aren't concerned then don't waste your time.
I'm happy I knocked it out before OCS because the MCT was no joke for me. YMMV.

Can we have story time on how BUMED misinterpreted the NAMI waiver guidelines? Kinda in a similar situation right now...

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Can we have story time on how BUMED misinterpreted the NAMI waiver guidelines? Kinda in a similar situation right now...

Some clarification, N3M doesn't look at NAMI waiver guide, they look at Navy Medical Manual for the accessions standards, they defer to NAMI for qualification in aviation programs, the Navy Medical Manual has the basic requirements for aviation, now when a person goes to OCS now they are officially part of the USN and as such NAMI and their guidelines then come into play.

It can get more confusing as what could be listed as waiverable by NAMI maybe be disqualifying in the Navy Medical Manual for trying to come into the USN so a person may not even get a chance to get into the USN and then reviewed by NAMI, or course it is possible to have the community override N3M, however the general thought is there are so many applicants why need to.

So now to make it even more confusing in some cases recruiters who are close to Pensacola have been able to get their candidates a physical at NAMI and that bypasses everything, given COVID I don't know if that is even a possibility now.

The fun of physicals, illnesses, injuries and getting waivers.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

Some clarification, N3M doesn't look at NAMI waiver guide, they look at Navy Medical Manual for the accessions standards, they defer to NAMI for qualification in aviation programs, the Navy Medical Manual has the basic requirements for aviation, now when a person goes to OCS now they are officially part of the USN and as such NAMI and their guidelines then come into play.

It can get more confusing as what could be listed as waiverable by NAMI maybe be disqualifying in the Navy Medical Manual for trying to come into the USN so a person may not even get a chance to get into the USN and then reviewed by NAMI, or course it is possible to have the community override N3M, however the general thought is there are so many applicants why need to.

So now to make it even more confusing in some cases recruiters who are close to Pensacola have been able to get their candidates a physical at NAMI and that bypasses everything, given COVID I don't know if that is even a possibility now.

The fun of physicals, illnesses, injuries and getting waivers.

Let's sum it up as the fun of Naval Aviation Medicine. Most Docs you run into in fleet squadron capacities, are there to help you and keep you flying. The ones you meet before being winged will scare you away from the good ones. Sucks but it's the way it is.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

Let's sum it up as the fun of Naval Aviation Medicine. Most Docs you run into in fleet squadron capacities, are there to help you and keep you flying. The ones you meet before being winged will scare you away from the good ones. Sucks but it's the way it is.

Wait what did I do wrong? Why are three of the most liberal Airwarriors liking my post?

... @Brett327 @Flash @taxi1 Please take the joke as what it is! Just a joke . I don't think there are political leanings behind the fact that many aviators hide their medical stuff from their flight docs. It's a straight fact, and until NAMI gets a case of common sense, it will continue. I totally understand the pressure flight docs have in that if a Pilot is responsible for killing others, it was their fault. But the rigidness... Every NATOPs starts out at the beginning with something along the line of: "these procedures are not a replacement for sound judgement"

 

[Brett327]

Wait what did I do wrong? Why are three of the most liberal Airwarriors liking my post?

... @Brett327 @Flash @taxi1 Please take the joke as what it is! Just a joke . I don't think there are political leanings behind the fact that many aviators hide their medical stuff from their flight docs. It's a straight fact, and until NAMI gets a case of common sense, it will continue. I totally understand the pressure flight docs have in that if a Pilot is responsible for killing others, it was their fault. But the rigidness... Every NATOPs starts out at the beginning with something along the line of: "these procedures are not a replacement for sound judgement"

I'm not a liberal.

 

[taxi1]

I don't think there are political leanings behind the fact that many aviators hide their medical stuff from their flight docs.

Uhhh, I don't think so either. The best you can ever do with a flight doc is break even. I recommend avoiding them unless you are bleeding out.