The end of NATO?

[taxi1]

This just flat-out makes me sad...

When President Trump introduced its successor, the F-47, he praised its strengths — and said the version sold to allies would be deliberately downgraded. That made sense, Mr. Trump said last week, “because someday, maybe they’re not our allies.”

For many countries wedded to the United States, his remark confirmed a related conclusion: that America can no longer be trusted.

Perhaps no country is more shocked than Canada. It shares the world’s largest undefended border with the United States, despite their wide disparity in military strength. Why? Because Canadians trusted America. Now, in large part, they do not.

Someone explain to me why TF we are repeatedly threatening to make Canada the 51st state, please?

 

[Spekkio]

We frequently strip down the weapons systems we send to allies, especially cutting-edge platforms, so I'm not sure why this article is shocking.

Someone explain to me why TF we are repeatedly threatening to make Canada the 51st state, please?

The 51st state was a joke. But I don't understand why we are posturing toward Canada as some kind of competitor and imposing tariffs on natural resources that we can't produce in large quantities enough domestically to meet demand.

 

[taxi1]

The 51st state was a joke.

In general (from another article)...

Mr. Trump, he said, had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon. Mr. Trump was interested in doing just that, Mr. Lutnick said.

He wanted to eject Canada out of an intelligence-sharing group known as the Five Eyes that also includes Britain, Australia and New Zealand. He wanted to tear up the Great Lakes agreements and conventions between the two nations that lay out how they share and manage Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie and Ontario. And he is also reviewing military cooperation between the two countries, particularly the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

In subsequent communications between senior Canadian officials and Trump advisers, this list of topics has come up again and again, making it hard for the Canadian government to dismiss them.

 

[BigRed389]

We frequently strip down the weapons systems we send to allies, especially cutting-edge platforms, so I'm not sure why this article is shocking.


The 51st state was a joke. But I don't understand why we are posturing toward Canada as some kind of competitor and imposing tariffs on natural resources that we can't produce in large quantities enough domestically to meet demand.

Well, while that is generally true, we usually don’t say the quiet part out loud.

But as for tariffs on Canada or in general, tariffs will just be taxes by another name. 47 can unilaterally impose tariffs without Congressional approval. He cannot touch taxes (for now) without an act of Congress. Given it will likely end up having broader impacts on essentials and everyday goods, it will probably end up being a tax.

As for the part of it being a joke…it’s a joke, for now. Just like taking Greenland by force is just a joke. Or running for a third term is a joke…but also not a joke.

 

[Spekkio]

From a pure economic standpoint, the tariffs are supposed to be akin to a flat tax. According to the CBO, the increased revenue / lost GDP from tariffs should about equal and cancel out the lost revenue / increased GDP of making the TCJA permanent. The end result is a less progressive tax structure with fewer exemptions, which is typically what Republicans want in their fiscal policy platforms.

However, the Trump administration is using foreign imports vice domestic goods as the sales-tax punching bag, which is contrary to GOP globalism fiscal policy that goes back to at least the Reagan administration.

I think that there is some national security merit there, especially when we look at our inability to manufacture and distribute certain things during COVID (like masks). Then the Trump administration wraps this all into a 'we can return to the golden ages of the 1950s-1970s' populism for his older constituents to sell it while most people under 50 are like 'wtf are you doing?'

Sidenote: If anyone listens to Jon Stewart's weekly show podcast, he has two esteemed economists on a week or two ago that discuss the ins-and-outs of this like actual adults.

But what I don't understand is why the administration is set on making the tariffs sound punitive, and particularly against Canada. It's not the policy per se, it's the tone.

 

[Randy Daytona]

In general (from another article)...

Mr. Trump, he said, had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon. Mr. Trump was interested in doing just that, Mr. Lutnick said.

He wanted to eject Canada out of an intelligence-sharing group known as the Five Eyes that also includes Britain, Australia and New Zealand. He wanted to tear up the Great Lakes agreements and conventions between the two nations that lay out how they share and manage Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie and Ontario. And he is also reviewing military cooperation between the two countries, particularly the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

In subsequent communications between senior Canadian officials and Trump advisers, this list of topics has come up again and again, making it hard for the Canadian government to dismiss them.

If Canada became the 51st state, it would be the electoral college equivalent of adding another California, making it difficult for Republicans to win elections in the future.

If statehood was offered to an individual province that feels neglected or constantly outvoted, ie, Alberta, it would be a marginally more believable scenario although still highly unlikely.

 

[taxi1]

and particularly against Canada

It's just fucking bizarre, frankly, the thing the current POTUS has for them.

 

[Spekkio]

 

[Griz882]

Someone explain to me why TF we are repeatedly threatening to make Canada the 51st state, please?

During Trump’s first administration Justin Trudeau fundamentally and often openly opposed Trump on several issues. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, and Trudeau used his youthful popularity to hit Trump (a gift to Germany’s Merklel who also publicly disliked Trump) but in the end Trump realized that Canada is the weaker party. The last straw appeared to be Trudeau’s “open door” immigration policy to troubled Middle Eastern nations - one of the things that ended Trudeau’s time in the boss chair (https://www.afr.com/world/north-ame...igue-killed-trudeau-not-trump-20250107-p5l2gy) .

Come 2025 and Trump came in both guns blazing. His intent is clear…make Canada feel weak, disrupt their economy, get them to bend to America’s will. The “51st state” crap is just Trump blather, he could care less, but he clearly isn’t a guy to forget old insults. Now, please don’t come after me…this is not my policy…but you asked for a reason and there it is…even if you don’t like it.

 

[taxi1]

but he clearly isn’t a guy to forget old insults. Now, please don’t come after me…this is not my policy…but you asked for a reason and there it is…even if you don’t like it.

I think it is important to acknowledge that it boils down to hurt feelings. As monumentally pathetic as that is.

 

[number9]

From a pure economic standpoint, the tariffs are supposed to be akin to a flat tax. According to the CBO, the increased revenue / lost GDP from tariffs should about equal and cancel out the lost revenue / increased GDP of making the TCJA permanent. The end result is a less progressive tax structure with fewer exemptions, which is typically what Republicans want in their fiscal policy platforms.

However, the Trump administration is using foreign imports vice domestic goods as the sales-tax punching bag, which is contrary to GOP globalism fiscal policy that goes back to at least the Reagan administration.

I think that there is some national security merit there, especially when we look at our inability to manufacture and distribute certain things during COVID (like masks). Then the Trump administration wraps this all into a 'we can return to the golden ages of the 1950s-1970s' populism for his older constituents to sell it while most people under 50 are like 'wtf are you doing?'

Sidenote: If anyone listens to Jon Stewart's weekly show podcast, he has two esteemed economists on a week or two ago that discuss the ins-and-outs of this like actual adults.

But what I don't understand is why the administration is set on making the tariffs sound punitive, and particularly against Canada. It's not the policy per se, it's the tone.

President Trump repeatedly - including during his first administration - confused trade deficits with subsidies. I can't tell if he's just trolling everyone, or if he truly does not understand the difference between the two. We run a trade deficit with Canada and POTUS thinks this means we are "losing".

 

[number9]

@Spekkio you should watch this. Very funny, and really quite accurate too:

 

[Spekkio]

During Trump’s first administration Justin Trudeau fundamentally and often openly opposed Trump on several issues. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, and Trudeau used his youthful popularity to hit Trump (a gift to Germany’s Merklel who also publicly disliked Trump) but in the end Trump realized that Canada is the weaker party. The last straw appeared to be Trudeau’s “open door” immigration policy to troubled Middle Eastern nations - one of the things that ended Trudeau’s time in the boss chair (https://www.afr.com/world/north-ame...igue-killed-trudeau-not-trump-20250107-p5l2gy) .

Come 2025 and Trump came in both guns blazing. His intent is clear…make Canada feel weak, disrupt their economy, get them to bend to America’s will. The “51st state” crap is just Trump blather, he could care less, but he clearly isn’t a guy to forget old insults. Now, please don’t come after me…this is not my policy…but you asked for a reason and there it is…even if you don’t like it.

This definitely fits with Trump's theme of retribution against all who oppose him and especially anyone who was a 1st or 2nd order contact with former President Biden.

 

[Brett327]

I think it is important to acknowledge that it boils down to hurt feelings. As monumentally pathetic as that is.

Trump is the most fragile of all the snowflakes.

 

[ChuckMK23]

"Please please please don't let DOGE cut NASA..."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1906729813831741661