The Eyes have it - All things Vision-related

[Citian]

Hi All,

New to the forum so bear with me please. I'll keep it short and simple.

Here's the deal, I got my eyes set on becoming a pilot and I'll be starting NROTC in a year when I go into my junior year of college, I have a good GPA, 20 years old, no criminal past, etc. I have it all mapped out basically. However my eyesight is horrible, to say the least(myopic). My Rx for glasses is -8.25 in my right eye and -7.25 in the left one (around 20/800 in both). Two weeks ago I scheduled a consultation with a laser eye center to find out if I was a candidate for LASIK or PRK, turns out I am and all is good. But..Long story short: Pre-Op refractive error limit is what's keeping me up at night. My question to you all is: Do I have ANY chance of getting a waiver given my refractive error? Are these limits written in stone or is there any leeway for someone who is right on the limit or slightly past it?
P.S: I had my cycloplegic exam yesterday, turns out.. RIGHT: sphere= -7.00, cylinder= -1.50 LEFT: sphere= -8.00, cylinder= -0.25. However, after transposition I'm looking at -8.50 in the right and -8.25 in the left. I don't know if the Navy looks at your refractive error after transposition or not? If someone has a clue, please chime in.

Anyway I'd greatly appreciate it if you guys could shed some light on my situation so I can hopefully start eating again haha. Thanks guys

I am wondering the same thing. I'm right on the border, too. How do the docs know if your pre-operative refractive error is below-standards? Is this something that the civilian PRK surgeon puts in your records?

Also wondering what the chances are of oculomotor balance requirements changing in the next couple of years. My near-gaze exophoria is 6.0, my far-gaze exophoria is 8.0, and my hyperphoria is 3.0 when my vision is corrected to 20/20, when examined by a civilian specialist in oculomotor balance disorders. These are slight enough deviations that when I mentioned this for the first time to my regular optometrist, he smirked and said "You can get a second opinion," as if the test for this problem is of a more subjective nature. Does anyone have insight into this? Are near- and far-gaze phorias of equal "weight" in deciding a prospective Naval Aviator's medical fitness?

 

[TAMR]

Quick question, if you pass your flight physical at OCS, then your eyes deteriorate passed 20/40 later on, are you waived from 20/40 after the OCS physical, or are there other medical tests you'll have to pass in primary or something to once again verify you're within the limits 20/40 range?

I had 20/30 corrected to 20/20 at MEPs, but that was last December and OCS won't be until the fall. I take Bilberry and Lutein to see if it will help maintain my vision, but I also work on computers for a living so that does cause strain on my eyes.

Thanks.

 

[ea6bflyr]

The only eye test that matters before you start API is the one from NAMI. Once, you start the training you should be good to go. Once you get your wings, your eyes can get worse than 20/40 as long as they are correctable to 20/20.

-ea6bflyr

 

[TAMR]

The only eye test that matters before you start API is the one from NAMI. Once, you start the training you should be good to go. Once you get your wings, your eyes can get worse than 20/40 as long as they are correctable to 20/20.

-ea6bflyr

Thanks for the info! Are pilots required to wear corrective lenses or contacts while flying then?

 

[ea6bflyr]

Thanks for the info! Are pilots required to wear corrective lenses or contacts while flying then?

Yes, all aircrew are supposed to see 20/20 when flying.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Zachary Roecker]

Another question for a doc:

Hi, I am a pro-rec SNA/NFO from the April board and also failed the MEPS depth perception. I recently visited my civilian optometrist and was given the stereofly test, of which I passed with 9/9 on the dot test, which they told me met the 40 seconds of arc minimum required by NAMI waiver guide. However, my OR sent the results to NRC and called me today claiming they said I was still NPQ'd for SNA based solely on depth perception, and would not consider any alternative tests as I was permanently disqualified. From what I've been reading on these forums, several applicants have had this same issue, received further testing from specialized eye doctors, and been given the green light for OCS under a SNA billet. I was curious as to why I would be disqualified after re-testing with a perfect score, and if anyone had any insight towards this issue. My technical exam stats are as follows: Right eye: SPH -0.50 CYL -0.25 Left eye: SPH pl CYL -0.25. Dva in both eyes is 20/20 uncorrected. Thanks in advance, it is much appreciated.

 

[nugget61]

Your eyes sound better than mine and I got through (still can't see those cheerios on the nami test)
Waiver Guide:

Depth Perception: Only stereopsis is tested. Must pass any one of the following three tests:
(1) AFVT: at least A – D with no misses.
(2) Stereo booklet (Titmus Fly or Randot): 40 arc second circles.
(3) Verhoeff: 8/8 corrent on the first trial or, if any are missed, 16/16 correct on the
combined second and third trials.

http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc/nami/arwg/Pages/AeromedicalReferenceandWaiverGuide.aspx

 

[Ralph]

Anybody know of a good place to get lasik in san diego.

 

[mataron]

Another question for a doc:

Hi, I am a pro-rec SNA/NFO from the April board and also failed the MEPS depth perception. I recently visited my civilian optometrist and was given the stereofly test, of which I passed with 9/9 on the dot test, which they told me met the 40 seconds of arc minimum required by NAMI waiver guide. However, my OR sent the results to NRC and called me today claiming they said I was still NPQ'd for SNA based solely on depth perception, and would not consider any alternative tests as I was permanently disqualified. From what I've been reading on these forums, several applicants have had this same issue, received further testing from specialized eye doctors, and been given the green light for OCS under a SNA billet. I was curious as to why I would be disqualified after re-testing with a perfect score, and if anyone had any insight towards this issue. My technical exam stats are as follows: Right eye: SPH -0.50 CYL -0.25 Left eye: SPH pl CYL -0.25. Dva in both eyes is 20/20 uncorrected. Thanks in advance, it is much appreciated.

Anyone care to chime in on this? This is a serious issue that no one seems to know anything about.

 

[TAMR]

The only eye test that matters before you start API is the one from NAMI. Once, you start the training you should be good to go. Once you get your wings, your eyes can get worse than 20/40 as long as they are correctable to 20/20.

-ea6bflyr

Actually I was reading through this and want to verify. When you say the test before API, are you referring to the one at OCS, or is there another after that? You said "once you get your wings your eyes can get worse than 20/40", but what about between NAMI and your winging?

 

[jbweldon04]

Another question for a doc:

Hi, I am a pro-rec SNA/NFO from the April board and also failed the MEPS depth perception. I recently visited my civilian optometrist and was given the stereofly test, of which I passed with 9/9 on the dot test, which they told me met the 40 seconds of arc minimum required by NAMI waiver guide. However, my OR sent the results to NRC and called me today claiming they said I was still NPQ'd for SNA based solely on depth perception, and would not consider any alternative tests as I was permanently disqualified. From what I've been reading on these forums, several applicants have had this same issue, received further testing from specialized eye doctors, and been given the green light for OCS under a SNA billet. I was curious as to why I would be disqualified after re-testing with a perfect score, and if anyone had any insight towards this issue. My technical exam stats are as follows: Right eye: SPH -0.50 CYL -0.25 Left eye: SPH pl CYL -0.25. Dva in both eyes is 20/20 uncorrected. Thanks in advance, it is much appreciated.

From what I've gathered, NAMI doesn't really take into account what you get done out in town. If you could find an Aerospace Optometrist in the Navy somewhere that is NICE enough to help you out you might have a shot at being reconsidered. Think about this from a Navy standpoint. You failed the depth perception that most other SNA's have passed. If they spend all this money to bring you through the pipeline at OCS for SNA and you become ineligible, that hurts the Navy.

If you are a fully trained Aviator things are different. You have 2 years of training and the Navy would want to get a return on their investment. That's why waivers are easier to get after you're trained.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Actually I was reading through this and want to verify. When you say the test before API, are you referring to the one at OCS, or is there another after that? You said "once you get your wings your eyes can get worse than 20/40", but what about between NAMI and your winging?

That's why it's called the "NAMI Whammy"! What occurred before doesn't matter...Those other physicals are filters to get you to NAMIs door....only what NAMI says at your API physical counts as the official standard. Now your second question is a good one, because by the letter of the Law, IF your eyes got worse than SNA standards, you would be out of standards and either require a waiver or be re-designated. Now this is all contingent on 1) would the flight doc at your flight physical catch it, and 2) would he send that to NAMI. I don't have those answers...

-ea6bflyr

 

[mataron]

From what I've gathered, NAMI doesn't really take into account what you get done out in town. If you could find an Aerospace Optometrist in the Navy somewhere that is NICE enough to help you out you might have a shot at being reconsidered. Think about this from a Navy standpoint. You failed the depth perception that most other SNA's have passed. If they spend all this money to bring you through the pipeline at OCS for SNA and you become ineligible, that hurts the Navy.

If you are a fully trained Aviator things are different. You have 2 years of training and the Navy would want to get a return on their investment. That's why waivers are easier to get after you're trained.

Does anybody know of any Navy Aerospace Optometrists in the southern California area?

 

[TAMR]

That's why it's called the "NAMI Whammy"! What occurred before doesn't matter...Those other physicals are filters to get you to NAMIs door....only what NAMI says at your API physical counts as the official standard. Now your second question is a good one, because by the letter of the Law, IF your eyes got worse than SNA standards, you would be out of standards and either require a waiver or be re-designated. Now this is all contingent on 1) would the flight doc at your flight physical catch it, and 2) would he send that to NAMI. I don't have those answers...

-ea6bflyr

So who administers the OCS full physical then?

 

[ea6bflyr]

So who administers the OCS full physical then?

I'm not sure, but I'm assuming there's at least one flight surgeon in Newport to do the final sign off. Again, your flight physical that you get prior to commissioning through either NROTC or OCS will always be overridden by NAMI once you get down to Pensacola. Expect to get ANOTHER flight physical once you get to Pensacola.

-ea6bflyr