The Great, Constantly Changing Picture Gallery

[Crowbar]

The HMM(REIN) is a reinforced/composite squadron (O-5) who as the ACE has dets from other squadrons and is analogous to the GCE (that is a reinforced battalion) with the MEU Commander (O-6) being more akin to the Carrier Air Wing Commander who has up to eight individual squadrons + COD det assigned.

The ACE can be task organized (ie with or without Harriers) depending what is expected to be needed for pending deployment. Carrier Air Wings have done limited experiments along those lines, but are pretty much fixed in composition.

I didn't know the intricacies of how the Navy does business, but my educated guess was along these lines. Since the MAGTF is in theory very flexible, it can be tailored to exactly what is needed. The typical MEU ACE is a complete HMM plus dets from HMH, HMLA, VMA, MACG, etc etc, but there have been instances where we would deploy an HMH based ACE. The example that springs to mind for me was 1999 when a SPMAGTF did disaster relief in Puerto Rico like that.

Either that, or using the Navy CVW model just didn't sound "Expeditionary" enough for us.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I didn't know the intricacies of how the Navy does business, but my educated guess was along these lines. Since the MAGTF is in theory very flexible, it can be tailored to exactly what is needed. The typical MEU ACE is a complete HMM plus dets from HMH, HMLA, VMA, MACG, etc etc, but there have been instances where we would deploy an HMH based ACE. The example that springs to mind for me was 1999 when a SPMAGTF did disaster relief in Puerto Rico like that.

Either that, or using the Navy CVW model just didn't sound "Expeditionary" enough for us.

Other than calling it some flavor of Wing under an O-6, instead of calling it a reinforced squadron and having an O-5 in charge, I think the distinction would have been nil. How exactly you tailor the Wing, and how flexible you make it, is just a matter of SOP and doctrine.

hj's explanation makes the most sense to me - keep it equivalent to the GCE, especially rank of the element commander, in order to minimize pissing contests.

So, the way I understand it, the CO of the "core" HMM squadron is the CO of the HMM(REIN) and ACE commander as well? That right? Or is another O-5 tacked on above him?

 

[gaijin6423]

You're right. The CO of the HMM is the REIN CO as well. Hence, MEU ACE veterans from other places talk about their 'phitness reports'. My experience as an MACG guy, though, didn't seem that bad. They pretty much just let me do my job, save for one or two occasions, and those were cleared up quickly.

 

[Crowbar]

Apparently I'm not doing a good job of articulating what I'm thinking.

Before I go on, there are three common kinds of MAGTFs, the smallest and most common being a MEU.
A MEU has a Colonel commanding it and the ACE, GCE, and MSSG each have a LtCol commanding them. In a MEU the ACE is the HMM so "ACE CO" and "squadron CO" can be used interchangeably in that situation.

I think I misunderstood your original question. I thought you were asking a doctrinal question but after re-reading it, were you just asking why we use reinforced squadrons instead of wings?

 

[Crowbar]

Enough talk, here's another picture...

 

[A4sForever]

Enough talk, here's another picture...

Roger that; ..... today on the NW side of some island, somewhere, someplace ....

 

[e6bflyer]

Great pics A4's. Days like today is why I love the PAC NW. Is that Grey Whale a regular, or just passing through?

 

[HeyJoe]

Hawkeye Haulin' A--

081121-N-3610L-353 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 21, 2008) An E-2C Hawkeye assigned to the "Black Eagles" of Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 113 performs a flyby for a group of tigers assembled on the flight deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) during a flight demonstration. Tigers, guest aboard Ronald Reagan, were treated to full demonstration of the in-flight capabilities of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 14. Ronald Reagan is on a scheduled deployment operating in the U.S. 3rd Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Torrey W. Lee/Released)

 

[VetteMuscle427]

081121-N-3610L-353 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 21, 2008) An E-2C Hawkeye assigned to the "Black Eagles" of Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 113 performs a flyby for a group of tigers assembled on the flight deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) during a flight demonstration. Tigers, guest aboard Ronald Reagan, were treated to full demonstration of the in-flight capabilities of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 14. Ronald Reagan is on a scheduled deployment operating in the U.S. 3rd Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Torrey W. Lee/Released)

BOOYAH! I'm famous. I've been in one of HJ's photos!

 

[A4sForever]

Great pics A4's. Days like today is why I love the PAC NW. Is that Grey Whale a regular, or just passing through?

There's 3 of 'em ... Daddy, Mama, and Baby (?) ... they've been hangin' around for 7+ days ... I wonder if they're related to this Whale that I came to know -- and to love .... ???

 

[KBayDog]

BOOYAH! I'm famous. I've been in one of HJ's photos!

Great. Now show us a link to the obligatory VAW cruise video.

 

[BusyBee604]

From the Tailhook Association Archives

VAQ-131 delivery van at NAS Alameda. The squadron was flying the EKA-3B EW/tanker aircraft before they moved to Whidbey a few years later and transitioned to the EA-6B.
Notice the A-3 refueling probe mounted above the driver's door.
Photo taken 13 September 1969 by Clay Jansson

My personal VA-127 Squadron Mascot "BugHawk"! Photo #1: Note A-4 probe & chrome-plated actual A-4 tailhook. Simulated "hot refuel" in HS fuel pits. Plugged in, (glad he didn't open the fueling valve)!

Photo #2: Which one is the Real 702!
NAS Lemoore, VA-127 Line - Summer 1973

Aside: Was driving w/ my 2 young sons in BugHawk to see a Giant game in SF. Cruising the MacArthur Freeway through Oakland, got pulled over by CHP. 2 Officers, guns drawn, braced me up hands high against the vehicle, demanding to know what that "weapon" was mounted on the front fender!After papers/mil. ID were shown & Squadron Mascot traditions explained, they eased off & actually apologized for the manner of the stop. They said they received a call that a vehicle had been spotted by another motorist on the freeway, with a CANNON mounted on the front & they couldn't take any chances!
Just one of many fun experiences with BugHawk back in the day!
BzB

 

[zipmartin]

Shrike shoot, VA-86, CVW-8 Weps Det, late '70's.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

From an air show a couple weeks back.

 

[Crowbar]

Roger that; ..... today on the NW side of some island, somewhere, someplace ....

I'll see your whales and raise you Mount Baker...

Just as a note to everybody, unless I specificially say otherwise in the post, I have taken all the pictures I posted in this thread.