The Great Flight Jacket Thread (wearing/buying Leather, NOMEX, WEP jackets/patches)

[theduke]

yeah, there's a fine line

at TBS, it's like you're standing inspection before 200 Lieutenants all day, every day. it's like they just look for some little stupid thing to correct each other on, and it's annoying as shit, and kinda treading into "boy who cried wolf" territory.

and yeah, regardless of how he meant to come across, i wouldn't have said "Ensign, the button..." I would've said something (if we were just hanging around...not if, say, i passed him in the PX), but it would've been more like "Hey dude, your back pocket's unbuttoned."

I saw a female Ensign in the API building one day who looked like she got dressed by having people throw uniform items at her...I just caught her when she was away from everyone else and politely told her that she looked all fucked up, in so many words at least. She was about to go into a Marine Major's office, and was appreciative that I caught her when I did.


and there's no reason to act like a dicknozzle when correcting a young enlisted Marine or sailor, either. So he didn't salute you when you walked by? Ok, don't let it slide, but make it a learning point rather than an asschewing session.

I'm not saying that chewing someone's ass is never justified, but 99% of the time, you can convey your point in a very civil manner. If you can't, that's your own deficiency.

Hallelujiah, everybody say cheese
Merry Christmas from the family

Carve the turkey, turn the ballgame on
Mix margaritas when the eggnog's gone

 

[squeeze]

oh god... make it stop

 

[HeyJoe]

All Flight Jackets are not created equal

I'd be really reluctant to buy a flight jacket over the web. You really need to see it, and try it on. There are all sorts of leathers out there and faux collars. If you are going to buy one, invest in a good one. The original manufacturer was Willis & Geiger who sadly got bought out a few years ago. Check out ones you see on others and look at the label if there isn't a retail outlet you can visit. BTW, the Navy spec has been relaxed so many times that the collars went to faux Mouton over 20 years ago and manufacturers can roll cheaper leather to look like goatskin. Interestingly, when Air Force brought back leather after almost 50 years* to boost morale, they opted for goatskin (they were traditionally horsehide; urban legend was the leather came from all the cavalry horses they didn't need anymore).

*Navy lost the leather jacket for a few years in letter 70's and got it back when SECNAV brown back brown shoes and G-1 after hearing outcry at Tailhook. USAF discontinued theirs because it wasn't warm enough when they went to latest tech multi-pile fabrics in 1942 that eveloved to CWU-36/45 that we have today. Navy lost leather because it was in supply system and everyone and their brother was ordering them (ultimate bartering item). Many times more were being dispensed than potential aviators were going through AI so they shut it down. OSD raised a stink.

 

[Schnugg]

I would stick with the size you wear. 46 flight suit equals a 46 jacket, otherwise it will look like it's hanging on your frame...unless you have a gut.

 

[Brett327]

I'd be really reluctant to buy a flight jacket over the web. You really need to see it, and try it on. There are all sorts of leathers out there and faux collars.

I can personally vouch for the jackets from Pop's Leather in Incirlik. They have a great rep and do good work.

Brett

 

[East]

Thanx for the reactions,
Just bought a sz 46 as I wear a sz 46 flightsuit. Rather snug fit though...sz 48 is even harder to get as the average NA is not a huge person (in length that is!). Does anyone out there has sz 48 spare?

 

[HeyJoe]

I thought the regs said you needed one. Not that anyone really follows those anyway. If that's the case, then I'm definitely gonna wait. No real need for a leather here in K-rock right now...

My two cents on top of the ante pile that is already large. Go "naked" or go with Tipsy Gipsy. Let your CWU-36 o 45 be your visual biography (keep one IAW regs to wear outside the spaces).

At least the Navy allows diversity and individuality. Not always so...Leather Jackets were once verbotten outside squadron area and treated like the flight suit. Wearing them through the gate resulted in permanent loss of the jacket (jealous Blackshoe admirals set the uniform standards for districts/regions and aviators had to enforce the rules). Many flight students lost their jackets days after issue trying to "run the gate" at PCola in flights and jackets. Cecil used to have a sign outside the gate saying "Warning: Flight Jacket Removal Area". Many, including me, wore it to the car for the early go (over flight suit), then pulled it off prior to the gate and pulled flight suit down as well (PT gear under flight suit). Miramar got so anal that the Admiral in late 70ss made the Squadron CO stand gate guard duty to spot the rulebreakers if one of his JOs got caught. Usually, that lasted a day or so before someone else got nailed. It was only recently that CNO (finally an aviator CNO) stopped the madness.

USAF has treated the flight suit and jacket as a uniform item for years (they even have websites with threads on how to groom their flight suits) and their flight suit and flight jacket has to conform to the regs, period, dot...not variation of patches, no Tipsy Gypsy custom leather. Everyone will conform! Had a friend do an exchange with USAF and he had to carry a letter authorizing the leather jacket because USAF senior types stopped him so much (that was before they got their leather back in 1987).

 

[East]

Here in the Netherlands there's also a difference for Navy and Airforce reg's.
For the RNLAF the flightgear (suit and jacket) is considered a uniform while the RNLN only considers the (grey German standard) jacket as a uniform.
We could wear the (grey) leather ones on our service dress.

Untill the 90s the Navy did go with the orange nomex flightsuits (just like the VF-114 Aardvarks) and it was considered functional clothing only to be worn when scheduled for flights. After the MPA role changed from ASW and over land (verification/recon) flights, crews had to wear the USAF Nomex Green suits just like the RNLAF. From that moment regs changed and the flightsuit was considered a uniform, just like the Air Force.

The German grey flight jacket was discontinued in the mid 90s and now we have a self made tent with a wool collar which is so ugly that no one even bother to wear it outside workingspaces....

Only pilots who received their flight training with the USAF (Sheppard AFB-Fighters/ Ft Rucker-Rotary Wing) are in the possesion of Nomex CWUs and are allowed to wear them.

Other flightcrew members (Flt Engineers, Flight Nurses, Cabin Attendants, Flight Test Engineers, Sensor Operators, Loadmasters and Boomers) are stuck with the tents. A lot of trading between Aircrews from other nations occured and nowadays CWUs, G-1s, A-2s and the popular Brittish flight jackets maybe found on our flightlines (also by crewchiefs). They also reflect some kind of trophy after squadron rotations. It's not a pretty sight with everyone wearing different jackets, but that is how things go when a good product is dicontinued.

I still have my leather Grey German jacket from the old days, but I have to say as the only NFO on a RNLAF Base I figured I have to endorse my Naval heritage by wearing a USN G-1 Flight Jacket. With my NFO wings all the outranking Officers think that it is a Naval thing and don't bother to comment me on that. It's a great Jacket and we don't have the regulations that a Flight Jacket has to be Fire retardent, only the flightsuit. Uniform code in the Dutch military is a mess anyway.......

 

[HeyJoe]

Flight Jacket swap

Thanx for the reactions,
Just bought a sz 46 as I wear a sz 46 flightsuit. Rather snug fit though...sz 48 is even harder to get as the average NA is not a huge person (in length that is!). Does anyone out there has sz 48 spare?

Well, if it is used, then you can't exchange it with the seller. I'd post it on eBay with a reserve to make sure you get your investment out of it and if you can't find a used one in size 48, go to one of the better manufacturers and get one there (preferably with real mouton collar).

Read in another AW thread that Pensacola currently only has size 50 in stock so you might find a student out there with a 48 willing to swap.

 

[Chubby]

Read in another AW thread that Pensacola currently only has size 50 in stock so you might find a student out there with a 48 willing to swap.

I got mine about a month ago down at mainside NAS Pensacola, and they were giving them out like candy and had all sizes. Don't know if that has changed in the last month, but it may be worth it to grab your NATOPs jacket and head on over there.

 

[JC52083]

Still giving away jackets like they're going out of style...seemed like they had plenty.

 

[HeyJoe]

oh god... make it stop

And I thought this was about leather flight jackets!?!

 

[McNamara]

P-Cola never issued me a jacket - I suppose I could ask my supply chief to bother them about it but I just got a Pop's Leather jacket for xmas. Perfect fit, great quality. I went with the goatskin and I'm very pleased (it's also cheaper than calfskin so I don't know why the Navy didn't stick with the original specs).

As I recall I was going to get the same size issue jacket as my flight suit, but then I wear a bag that's way on the baggy side. If your flight suit fits closer then you might want a jacket that's a size bigger to ensure proper length.

 

[skidkid]

I think that post was a wonderful illustration of the many mis-uses of Their There and They're

I think I now understand the trouble in communicating via email, and it wasnt on the Korean side.
Smiles-simulated

 

[Fezz CB]

This might be a gay question, but are we only allowed to wear the leather jacket after we've been issued it at the end of Week 3 of API?

I know you could buy a jacket from a bunch of websites and vintage stores, but are we actually authorized to wear it even before starting api? The reason i ask is bc i swear i saw an ensign at Thursdays muster wearing the leather. He definitely made some heads turn in the chapel.