The Great Flight Jacket Thread (wearing/buying Leather, NOMEX, WEP jackets/patches)

[Ex Rigger]

This might be a gay question, but are we only allowed to wear the leather jacket after we've been issued it at the end of Week 3 of API?

I know you could buy a jacket from a bunch of websites and vintage stores, but are we actually authorized to wear it even before starting api? The reason i ask is bc i swear i saw an ensign at Thursdays muster wearing the leather. He definitely made some heads turn in the chapel.

If he's a prior aircrew guy then he could already have one.......other than that then I'd say your being a tool.

 

[Pags]

I ordered a G-1 from these guys... others on the board were raving about them

http://www.oxfordleathershop.com/index1.html

Their a little quirky to deal with because their Korean, and there's was a little language barrier emailing back and forth for the status of my order... but the thing is GORGEOUS. Order whatever size your green flight jacket is... the one they sent me is a little big and I'm thinking of selling it on Ebay and getting another. Their only 150 bucks but it's so nice...

does the oxford jacket have the real mouton collar, and is it calfskin or goatskin?

i've seen a bunch of posts about good places to get a nice leather, but do most folks go with the more authentic goatskin over the current issue calfskin?

 

[HeyJoe]

Picking a G-1 Flight Jacket from outside vendors

does the oxford jacket have the real mouton collar, and is it calfskin or goatskin?

i've seen a bunch of posts about good places to get a nice leather, but do most folks go with the more authentic goatskin over the current issue calfskin?

I checked their website and they say upfront that their jacket is cowhide, but claim the collar is Shearling (likely their term for Mouton). I have a Goatskin G-1 made by Willis&Geiger to original WWII spec and it is noticeably lighter and "drapes" well (when I first wore it into the dirty shirt, "Lites" Leenhouts (a well known collector of jackets) spotted it from across the room and ordered one that day and before end of cruise, his entire ready room followed suit. There really have been a lot of poor quality G-1 jackets in the system due to relaxing of the spec over the years to keep the cost down. Manufacturers can roll cowhide leather to look like goatskin and typically use Dynel for the collar. Real mouton is quite different in look and feel and eventually turns honey brown from exposure to the sun.

But I also got a custom made G-1 from Alpha Industries (it was a sample they were test marketing) that was Argentine cowhide that is ultra soft and a close runner up to my goatskin. I tried it on and fell in love wththe fit and look so bought it from them. It really depends on the leather. I really recommend seeing and trying on the jacket you want to buy (hard to do over the web obviously). There is a wide range of differences from jacket to jacket even from same manufacturer (president of W&G told me that personally when I decided to go for one of their jackets in early 90s...they were later bought out and I can't even find them on the web anymore).

 

[Pags]

words

thanks for the gouge heyjoe, virtual rep points. i was poking around on the internet yesterday looking at all the usual suspects and was amazed at the variety of jackets i saw. I really liked the look of an M442 over at flightsuit.com, i guess it was the precursor to the G-1. Basically the same as far as I could tell from a cursory glance; just no USN on the wind flap.

My issue jacket is of the more recent "relaxed" standard variety. The collar is obviously some cruddy synthetic stuff. After reading the plethora of jacket threads lately, I've been noticing a lot of old guys with the faded honey collars, and I really like the look of it. I guess I'll have to find someone with a goatskin one to check out in person.

 

[HeyJoe]

thanks for the gouge heyjoe, virtual rep points. i was poking around on the internet yesterday looking at all the usual suspects and was amazed at the variety of jackets i saw. I really liked the look of an M442 over at flightsuit.com, i guess it was the precursor to the G-1. Basically the same as far as I could tell from a cursory glance; just no USN on the wind flap.

My issue jacket is of the more recent "relaxed" standard variety. The collar is obviously some cruddy synthetic stuff. After reading the plethora of jacket threads lately, I've been noticing a lot of old guys with the faded honey collars, and I really like the look of it. I guess I'll have to find someone with a goatskin one to check out in person.

I wrote an article on the jackets for Air & Space a few years back and then again for Flight Journal so I follow anything to do with the jackets fairly closely In my research, I discovered my issue jacket was also pretty lame. It was later stolen so I didn't miss it at all and opted for the W&G jacket. Cooper makes a nice jacket and everyhting out of Flightsuits is top notch...check the original manufacturer when possible because some outfits are selling stuff others have made so closer to source is best, especially if they will handpick the jacket for you.

Another otion is a hybrid. Some folks get vintage jackets with reall faded mouton and have it attached to their modern article. A couple of guys got mink collars overseas. There is also a lady in VB that specializes in the cuff and waistband repair if your current or vintage jacket needs some work.

 

[Pags]

I wrote an article on the jackets for Air & Space a few years back and then again for Flight Journal so I follow anything to do with the jackets fairly closely In my research, I discovered my issue jacket was also pretty lame. It was later stolen so I didn't miss it at all and opted for the W&G jacket. Cooper makes a nice jacket and everyhting out of Flightsuits is top notch...check the original manufacturer when possible because some outfits are selling stuff others have made so closer to source is best, especially if they will handpick the jacket for you.

Another otion is a hybrid. Some folks get vintage jackets with reall faded mouton and have it attached to their modern article. A couple of guys got mink collars overseas. There is also a lady in VB that specializes in the cuff and waistband repair if your current or vintage jacket needs some work.

Any chance there's a copy of one of these articles on you could link to? Would love to read it.

Did a quick google search on W & G, didn't turn up too much. Saw some stuff on Cooper, one website was not carrying their stuff anymore due to quality control problems.

I really liked the M442 at flightsuits, especially the red liner, even if it is a tad pricey.
http://flightsuits.com/leather_m422a.html

As far as I can tell (jacket neophyte), it looks just like the G-1 with some very minor differences.

Again, thanks for the gouge!

 

[HeyJoe]

Any chance there's a copy of one of these articles on you could link to? Would love to read it.

Did a quick google search on W & G, didn't turn up too much. Saw some stuff on Cooper, one website was not carrying their stuff anymore due to quality control problems.

I really liked the M442 at flightsuits, especially the red liner, even if it is a tad pricey.
http://flightsuits.com/leather_m422a.html

As far as I can tell (jacket neophyte), it looks just like the G-1 with some very minor differences.

Again, thanks for the gouge!

I was looking at the same jacket myself a few weeks ago.

I checked Flight Journal website and appears that only recent articles are posted there http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/store/articlesearch.asp

Same with Air & Space: http://www.airspacemag.com/

I'll see if I can dig into my archives and find a copy to scan.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I checked their website and they say upfront that their jacket is cowhide, but claim the collar is Shearling (likely their term for Mouton). I have a Goatskin G-1 made by Willis&Geiger to original WWII spec and it is noticeably lighter and "drapes" well (when I first wore it into the dirty shirt, "Lites" Leenhouts (a well known collector of jackets) spotted it from across the room and ordered one that day and before end of cruise, his entire ready room followed suit. There really have been a lot of poor quality G-1 jackets in the system due to relaxing of the spec over the years to keep the cost down. Manufacturers can roll cowhide leather to look like goatskin and typically use Dynel for the collar. Real mouton is quite different in look and feel and eventually turns honey brown from exposure to the sun.

But I also got a custom made G-1 from Alpha Industries (it was a sample they were test marketing) that was Argentine cowhide that is ultra soft and a close runner up to my goatskin. I tried it on and fell in love wththe fit and look so bought it from them. It really depends on the leather. I really recommend seeing and trying on the jacket you want to buy (hard to do over the web obviously). There is a wide range of differences from jacket to jacket even from same manufacturer (president of W&G told me that personally when I decided to go for one of their jackets in early 90s...they were later bought out and I can't even find them on the web anymore).

W&G merged/bought Southern California's Flight Suits Limited (great custom flight suits by the way!!)

http://www.flightsuits.com/

also every helmet part you could ever want. I kept my T-34 helmet from Primary way way back and had it refurbed completely. They do excellent work.

 

[HeyJoe]

Willis & Geiger

W&G merged/bought Southern California's Flight Suits Limited (great custom flight suits by the way!!)

QUOTE]

Willis&Geiger was the "heat" in their day. They were in the safari outfitting business (think Teddy Roosevelt and folks like that) when they started producing the definitive G-1 before WWII. They opted out of bidding on contracts when the spec was relaxed because their raw material cost was more than what the Navy was willing to pay after that. They were later purchased by Land's End, but LE grew too fast and had to restructure so Willis & Geiger is no more. I suspect Flightsuits bought up a lot of their stock:

News release follows:
Lands' End Reduces Staff, Stores, And Catalogs
Jan 13, 1999

Lands' End, Dodgeville, WI, will eliminate 94 of the 888 salaried positions in the company; liquidate the Willis & Geiger division; and close three of its 19 outlet stores.

According to the cataloger, the restructuring came about because Lands' End's professional staff grew 58%, while its sales only grew 35% over the past four years. The firm hoped that a leaner "more efficient" operation will help Lands' End return to the profitability levels it had enjoyed in previous years.

The costs of these changes will be included in a restructuring charge to be taken in the fourth quarter of fiscal 1999, ending Jan. 29.

While some of the eliminated positions will be the result of attrition, approximately 60 employees will be leaving the company. They will receive enhanced severance packages, including outplacement services.

Willis & Geiger is being liquidated because Lands' End claims a suitable buyer could not be found. The outlet stores are being closed because the cataloger has found that it is more and more effective to liquidate overstocks using the Internet and print media.

 

[Fezz CB]

To avoid starting a brand new thread, i have two quick questions:

1. Are we authorized to wear the green nomex jacket with khakis? Or is it only with flight suits?

2. For the leather jacket, it is just one nametag and one command patch? Or can we have the flag on the left shoulder and navy-related/platform on the right shoulder like the green nomex? I see guys with all kinds of wacky combinations so i just want to look average and not attract too much attention (except from the ladies).

I'd hate to look like a tool. Thanks.

 

[Pags]

To avoid starting a brand new thread, i have two quick questions:

1. Are we authorized to wear the green nomex jacket with khakis? Or is it only with flight suits?

2. For the leather jacket, it is just one nametag and one command patch? Or can we have the flag on the left shoulder and navy-related/platform on the right shoulder like the green nomex? I see guys with all kinds of wacky combinations so i just want to look average and not attract too much attention (except from the ladies).

I'd hate to look like a tool. Thanks.

Look at the uniform regulations under organizational clothing. All the official answers are there. Look around the local area/community for unofficial answer.

 

[Frumby]

Wiseguy,

Go to the Kingsville Saddle Shop which is affiliated with the King Ranch. No one knows leather like those folks. Didn't know the Leather Jacket did not come with velcro these days, mine did. Of course, I was issued the jacket when Ronnie was in office...........Semper Fly

 

[Brett327]

Look at the uniform regulations under organizational clothing. All the official answers are there. Look around the local area/community for unofficial answer.

Fvck the uniform regs. Don't sew ANYTHING on to your leather jacket. I've been sporting mine sans patches for 16 years with no problems. As for NOMEX w/ khakis, that just gay - don't do it.

Brett

 

[Frumby]

Brilliant Brett. Why follow any regulations at all? Just because you never got caught disregarding regulations doesn't mean that no one else will. Think about the audience you are talking to before you post.

 

[Brett327]

Brilliant Brett. Why follow any regulations at all? Just because you never got caught disregarding regulations doesn't mean that no one else will. Think about the audience you are talking to before you post.

All due respect, Sir, keep that Marine Kool Aide on your side of the street, and stop stealing my bike while you're at it (you're not perfect either) That's the Navy way of doing things, like it or not.

Brett