The Monster COD thread (homage to the C-2A Greyhound)

[HooverPilot]

CDR Salamander bring up a question that the COD community has been asking since before I was in it. I hope it doesn't take an inflight structural failure/incident to move this forward.

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-perishability-of-institutional.html?m=1

 

[Uncle Fester]

CDR Salamander bring up a question that the COD community has been asking since before I was in it. I hope it doesn't take an inflight structural failure/incident to move this forward.

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-perishability-of-institutional.html?m=1

When it does happen, they'll pin it on pilot error.

The C-2 bubbas I know sniff at the idea of a V-22 COD, but realistically it's the only way the community's getting new airplanes before the heat death of the universe. The FrankenCOD proposal just bolts E-2D wings and 427B engines (you don't want 'em) onto the existing airframes. They'd have to open up a whole new facility to build new C-2s, as there's no room at St Augustine for a second line. Plopters are by no means a 1:1 replacement, but they can do the job.


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[ea6bflyr]

Plopters are by no means a 1:1 replacement, but they can do the job.

Just like a crowbar (or a brick) can open a car, but it's no replacement for the car keys!

In the end, the Navy's last minute ad-hoc answer to replacing the C-2A(R) will do the job, but it will more than likely be less effective.

-ea6bflyr

 

[KBayDog]

Who would have thought back in the early 1960s that the original (more or less) design would be flying in 2012?

My guess is nobody, since apparently teenagers are supposed to be rocking these bad boys in just a shade over two years:

Science fiction? Awesome.
Science fact? Teh suck.

(Oh, and in case you were wondering, I'm quite bitter that my shoe laces don't yet tie themselves...)

 

[Jim123]

smh

Speaking of technology and the year 2015, Mr. Fusion would have been a real game-changer in sustainment operations and a miniaturized one on each COD would have been a major force multiplier...

 

[kmac]

Speaking of technology and the year 2015, Mr. Fusion would have been a real game-changer in sustainment operations and a miniaturized one on each COD would have been a major force multiplier...

Think of what you could do with an MV-22 with two Mr. Fusions! Unlimited CSAR, COD hits, and probably some kind of LCS-air capability! The Navy's leadership would be all over that.

Seriously though, I think the biggest obstacle isn't safety of the C2 so much as it is the decreasingly operational capability as more and more individual parts break and replacements get stretched to non-existent (aside from cannibalism).

On a related note, is the St Augustine line already at capacity? I'm sure C2s could be entered into the line without too much pain/cost to NG.

 

[kmac]

Uncle Fester, plopters can do the job to an extent less than current C2 capability. Perhaps that's what you mean by not having a 1:1. To meet (and surpass) COD capability, other assets are required (such as inflight refueling, ability to accept sling loads on the ship without too much interruption in cyclic ops, etc).

 

[Uncle Fester]

Uncle Fester, plopters can do the job to an extent less than current C2 capability. Perhaps that's what you mean by not having a 1:1. To meet (and surpass) COD capability, other assets are required (such as inflight refueling, ability to accept sling loads on the ship without too much interruption in cyclic ops, etc).

That is what I mean. A V-22 COD would mean losing some capability and changing others. It's not a great solution. But it's the best deal you're going to get, friendo.

"Just build more C-2s" ain't gonna happen. SAMC isn't at capacity, but you can't just build C-2s and E-2Ds interchangeably on the same line. You'd have to build a second line (the Original Recipe and C-2(R) were built at Calverton, never at St Aug). So you pretty much lose any cost savings.

Clean-sheet New COD...anyone think that if they went that route, it'd ever actually enter Fleet service? At least in the lifetime of anyone now serving?

FrankenCOD just punts the problem again. Actually not even...it gives the illusion of a temporary fix. Re-winging may be the 'must fix,' but its far from the only problem.

 

[helolumpy]

I have heard the the V-22 can't fit a hornet engine inside. That was one of the big show stoppers for the "Clopter" (Carrier Plopter)

 

[Harrier Dude]

I have heard the the V-22 can't fit a hornet engine inside. That was one of the big show stoppers for the "Clopter" (Carrier Plopter)

I somehow doubt that, having seen both up close (though separately) It looks like it would fit.

I can almost guarantee that an F-35 engine won't fit, so the point is still valid.

 

[helolumpy]

I somehow doubt that, having seen both up close (though separately) It looks like it would fit.

I can almost guarantee that an F-35 engine won't fit, so the point is still valid.

I got my info from a VP at Boeing who spoke at NWC a few years back.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I got my info from a VP at Boeing who spoke at NWC a few years back.

Maybe it's a CG issue or a matter of tiedowns?

At the moment there are twenty-odd Plopters sitting outside my office and they look plenty big enough to hold a Hornet engine, but like I said before, I've never seen anybody actually try it.

In any event, a F-35 engine certainly won't fit, so it's a moo point anyway.

 

[KBayDog]

In any event, a F-35 engine certainly won't fit, so it's a moo point anyway.

It's okay, they'll just throw the F-35 engines on LCUs and float them to the brand-spanking-new America-class LHAs.

Oh, wait...

 

[squorch2]

Whatever happened to the common support aircraft?

 

[HooverPilot]

The Navy bailed on the CSA. If memory serves, the Army & AF were bitching about the extra cost of making it carrier suitable, and the Navy told them to go to hell. I believe it then turned into the C-27 Spartan the AF is trying to ditch. The C-27 specs match a CODs almost to a T.