MasterBates
Well-Known Member
It will take a hi viz fatal mishap to get a COD replacement, or the NP2K properly fixed.
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The Monster COD thread (homage to the C-2A Greyhound)
- Thread starter MigF4
- Start date
What's the weight of a hornet engine? If anything I would think that could be a limiting factor.
Actually, it's the airspeed velocity of the unladen Osprey.
I'm sure the Marines have this figured out already for the Osprey. The C-2 NATOPS has a large list of engines and under what conditions we can transport it (in the can, on a cart, sections, etc). When a new engine hits the fleet, they bring one to the hangar and load it into the COD to prove if its possible or not. I was there when the Pax folks did that with the Super Hornet engine and I've heard it was done with the F-35 engine mockup.
Per AW&ST the F-404 engine (F/A-18C/D) weighs 2,982 lbs, is 154" long & produces 17,700 lbs/thrust in full A/B (5.94X thrust/wt ratio)
The F-414 engine (Super Hornet) weighs 2,445 lbs, is 154"long & produces 22,000 lbs/thrust in full A/B (9.0X thrust/weight ratio)
I think maybe arguing whether the V-22 is a perfect solution doesn't matter, if there are no other practical alternatives in sight. Restarting the line isn't realistic or cost-effective, there's no money or advocacy for clean-sheet COD-21 (and if they tried, it'd be 20+ years before it hit the Fleet), re-winging just punts the problem. I'm all for punting if you just need more time to solve issues with a long-term fix, but we all know damn well that it's just an excuse to table this problem for another 10 years. And in any case, the wings aren't even the biggest problem, just the easiest one to fix.
Going Osprey would be a major change for VRC and really, carrier aviation as a whole, as it would affect the whole supply "how you get shit to the Boat" chain. But, it's the only way they're getting new airplanes. Period. And there's been a Navy buy tacked on to the V-22 program for years - it's exercising a contract option, not a new contract.
Going Osprey would be a major change for VRC and really, carrier aviation as a whole, as it would affect the whole supply "how you get shit to the Boat" chain. But, it's the only way they're getting new airplanes. Period. And there's been a Navy buy tacked on to the V-22 program for years - it's exercising a contract option, not a new contract.
Yeh disregard then, hornet engines don't weigh as much as I imagined.
Couple buddies of mine almost witnessed that. Someone (like presumably the air boss) was apparently yelling at them to "eject" as they settled heavily off the cat (like kicking up a rooster tail of saltwater low). After they were climbing away and everyone got their seat cushions out of their asses, someone asked "say end speed"......"75 kts". Obviously not the same reason you are getting at, but still scurry
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I swear, in my dealings as Tower/CATCC Rep for the E-2 and C-2, (being the senior JO pilot, I did it a lot) I could not get half the VFA/VF/VS guys to understand how fucking hard it is to get out of an E-2, and that it's not normally an option in the C-2, and that anything bad off the CAT had a high probability of bad juju.
They KNOW the -2s don't have ejection seats, but they assume they can ditch so slow, it's survivable every time. And this was on a cruise where we lost a Hummer and the Aircraft Commander, and had E-2s coming back single engine or stuck flaps almost daily for a while.
To my knowledge, there has never been a E-2 or C-2 ditching where everyone lived.
They KNOW the -2s don't have ejection seats, but they assume they can ditch so slow, it's survivable every time. And this was on a cruise where we lost a Hummer and the Aircraft Commander, and had E-2s coming back single engine or stuck flaps almost daily for a while.
To my knowledge, there has never been a E-2 or C-2 ditching where everyone lived.
Those gentlemen were awarded Air Medals from CNAF. By all accounts, they should have died on that Cat but were able to save it. I believe the data recorder had them down to 32'. Some good flying they did...
To my knowledge there has never been a E-2 or C-2 ditching where ANYONE lived. But I don't believe a COD has ever been ditched.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I was told there were Hummers that tried to ditch, and it ended badly. But also think of the sim building, where a lot of these stories come from. Maybe Terry is in fact, the Chuck Yeager of props though. I honestly think a lot of the Hummer/COD "corporate knowledge" was stuff that was a best guess as what to do when the chips are down, that has been repeated so many times it was accepted as fact.
I do know for a fact, that some of the stuff they taught when I was at the RAG that would "always work".. Didn't.
I do know for a fact, that some of the stuff they taught when I was at the RAG that would "always work".. Didn't.
And to think that the AC was worried about the ramifications of overtorquing both engines... I'd still take a Class B mishap (for the engines) than a Class A.