M1917 or M1903 ??
But Cpl (later Sgt.) York? I dunno -- I also read the AR article on him and I think Garry James' source --the son? -- is no better than what has been put out there in the past. James is a fine author but he lists no reference other than the "son Andrew" -- now in his 80's(or dead ?) in the article. In York's war diary he writes that after he arrived in France, the Army took away his beloved "1903" and replaced it with an "English gun" -- i.e., the US Model of 1917. His division, the 82nd Infantry, was issued in toto the M1917 in France.
York's own diary narrative of the Oct 8, 1918 battle states: "In this battle I was using a rifle and a .45 Colt automatic." "A RIFLE"?? He identifies the Colt by name, but only refers to "a rifle"... ?? If it was, indeed, his beloved "1903", I would guesstimate he would refer to it as a "Springfield", or "1903" rather than -- "a rifle". But if he didn't like the M1917 as much -- he might call that "a rifle", perhaps? It's all speculation.
York's son emphatically stated that his father did use an '03 in battle --- fine, even though he was issued a 1917.
But did York use the 1917 as well? That's not addressed -- and his son(s) weren't there, in any case. Maybe Sgt. York told him/them the truth -- but that is one thing we'll never know for certain. So ... York's diary and the unit issue: that's 2-1 in favor of the M1917 ...
The first US Divisions to head to France were armed with the M1903 rifle, including the Marines. Before hostilities ended over 2/3 of American troops were armed with the M1917. Many of the ARMY Divisions were "RE-ARMED" with the M1917 in France, but the Marines retained the M1903s throughout the War. But none of that is definitive on the question at hand.
Funny how York never addressed the long-held postulate that he used an M1917 , while he was still alive. You would think he would have wanted to clear up any doubt as to which rifle he used that day -- especially when the M1917 has been I.D.'d for a long, long time as his MOH day battle rifle. These interesting questions never come up when the subject is alive --- only after they are dead. I still come down on the side of the M1917 because that is what the unit had, even though the M1903 is my all-time favorite rifle and I wish it to be true. Makes for a nice twist on the story, however. So ... war diary, unit issue, and York never publicly denied the M1917 use on Oct 8, 1918 ... 3-1 in favor of the M1917. :icon_mi_1
EDIT: Oh, yeah ... the rear sights. I think this is also where James' M1903 contention falls down --- the M1917 rear sight is basically the same as the 1918 BAR. Namely, it is a fine battle sight with a peep aperture and while not adjustable for windage -- the rifles were sighted in and the front sights staked at the factory. Adjusting for windage would be moot in any case in the type of engagement in which York won his MOH. With Germans all over the countryside at relatively short ranges flying at you and trying to kill you, adjusting for windage a'la on the range just ain't gonna happen. Actually, the sight radius of the 1917 is greater than that of the 1903 and thus inherently more accurate. The '03's rear sight was, or course, mounted ahead of the receiver. That's one reason why the designers moved the O3A3 rear sight back to the receiver with that model -- a better sight radius. 4-1 in favor of the M1917 ...
EDIT:
M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)
A4s is frequently wrong --- just ask my ex-wife. I'll even give you her phone # ..... :icon_womaVetteMuscle427 said:
But Cpl (later Sgt.) York? I dunno -- I also read the AR article on him and I think Garry James' source --the son? -- is no better than what has been put out there in the past. James is a fine author but he lists no reference other than the "son Andrew" -- now in his 80's(or dead ?) in the article. In York's war diary he writes that after he arrived in France, the Army took away his beloved "1903" and replaced it with an "English gun" -- i.e., the US Model of 1917. His division, the 82nd Infantry, was issued in toto the M1917 in France.
York's own diary narrative of the Oct 8, 1918 battle states: "In this battle I was using a rifle and a .45 Colt automatic." "A RIFLE"?? He identifies the Colt by name, but only refers to "a rifle"... ?? If it was, indeed, his beloved "1903", I would guesstimate he would refer to it as a "Springfield", or "1903" rather than -- "a rifle". But if he didn't like the M1917 as much -- he might call that "a rifle", perhaps? It's all speculation.
York's son emphatically stated that his father did use an '03 in battle --- fine, even though he was issued a 1917.
But did York use the 1917 as well? That's not addressed -- and his son(s) weren't there, in any case. Maybe Sgt. York told him/them the truth -- but that is one thing we'll never know for certain. So ... York's diary and the unit issue: that's 2-1 in favor of the M1917 ... The first US Divisions to head to France were armed with the M1903 rifle, including the Marines. Before hostilities ended over 2/3 of American troops were armed with the M1917. Many of the ARMY Divisions were "RE-ARMED" with the M1917 in France, but the Marines retained the M1903s throughout the War. But none of that is definitive on the question at hand.
Funny how York never addressed the long-held postulate that he used an M1917 , while he was still alive. You would think he would have wanted to clear up any doubt as to which rifle he used that day -- especially when the M1917 has been I.D.'d for a long, long time as his MOH day battle rifle. These interesting questions never come up when the subject is alive --- only after they are dead. I still come down on the side of the M1917 because that is what the unit had, even though the M1903 is my all-time favorite rifle and I wish it to be true. Makes for a nice twist on the story, however. So ... war diary, unit issue, and York never publicly denied the M1917 use on Oct 8, 1918 ... 3-1 in favor of the M1917. :icon_mi_1
EDIT: Oh, yeah ... the rear sights. I think this is also where James' M1903 contention falls down --- the M1917 rear sight is basically the same as the 1918 BAR. Namely, it is a fine battle sight with a peep aperture and while not adjustable for windage -- the rifles were sighted in and the front sights staked at the factory. Adjusting for windage would be moot in any case in the type of engagement in which York won his MOH. With Germans all over the countryside at relatively short ranges flying at you and trying to kill you, adjusting for windage a'la on the range just ain't gonna happen. Actually, the sight radius of the 1917 is greater than that of the 1903 and thus inherently more accurate. The '03's rear sight was, or course, mounted ahead of the receiver. That's one reason why the designers moved the O3A3 rear sight back to the receiver with that model -- a better sight radius. 4-1 in favor of the M1917 ...
EDIT:
Sorry A4, I just had to...
