-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
Although it seems not very likely in the foreseeable future, a career is a long time. Not many industries has the reputation the airlines do for long term furloughs. Most inconvenient for someone with a family. That is something to be prepared for.
And this is why i hold onto the other two jobs. You never know. Most of us are old enough to at least remember 2 major periods of airline contraction, mergers, furloughs, etc. And although i wasnt really aware of it at the time, i at least lived through some of the biggest strikes in 121 history (Eastern, CAL, United). I think you would be insane to not have a plan B, at a minimum.
Getting out of the military means re-defining job security to some degree. The airlines don’t have a monopoly on strikes and layoffs. Have a plan. You don’t have to hold down three jobs, but something to fall back on is essential.
Not to mention the wonderful American tradition of reinventing yourself when the situation calls for it!
Got someone in mind? ?
When I got out, I was worried about maintaining my health if I went to the airlines. I had a waiver for a thing or two in the navy, that I always worried would bite me if they progressed. As it turns out they didn’t, thankfully.
Not the main reason I chose the path I did, but it was in the mix.
Not the main reason I chose the path I did, but it was in the mix.
samb
Active Member
I had a pretty exciting job flying scouts, and I'd say there are times at the airlines that have rivaled some of my adrenaline producing moments in helicopters.
Regional flying in the Pacific Northwest was an easy job on most days and incredibly challenging on some. Dark and turbulent approaches in the Montana mountains, crazy amounts of ice over the Cascades, wild approaches dealing with wind shear as the winter storms roll in, losing pressurization as we're getting hammered by turbulence and ice over the mountains, etc.
But for all those challenging flights and difficult situations I've never feared for my life. Most days I'm sipping coffee comfortably above the weather, getting a good paycheck, and never gone for more than a couple nights. Life's good. There's still some excitement but it's a different game.
Just a few weeks ago I was sitting by the pool in Phoenix listening to some music and a police helicopter started circling overhead. I did have a moment of envy as I watched them work. The control touch, workload, and aviating that comes with that type of flying is incredibly rewarding. I get why you still do it.
It's just not for me anymore.
Crafted message with audiences other than pilots.
This sums it up for me. I like the guys and gals I fly with, but I really miss the squadron camaraderie that (at least for me) is lacking. A lot to do with age differences and where people live. The benefit of this job is the commutability. While I live in base. A lot of people I fly with don’t want to live in south Florida and commute in. The size of the airline also limits seeing or flying with the same pilot. I experienced when I was hired the paper bidding and you were with one captain the whole month. Could be good. Or bad. I’m still buddies with a number of them and I think allowed a lot more coordination and “hey you want to go do” on a layover. Now, while I do have a group of recurring pilots I see on my schedule its impossible to keep up with the hundreds that are in large bid statuses.
I value the time off, the ability to work less or more, and no one bugs me when I am not at work. I really haven’t picked up a hobby except travel. Wife and I travel a lot. We try for two Europe trips a year, we did two weeks in Italy back in November. And have three more major vacations planned for this year.
I got bored and started doing union work. Had to put those power point ranger skilz to use. I’m coming up on my fourth year of that and I don’t know how much longer I’ll do it. But it has been rewarding meeting a larger cross section of pilots at my airline, making some new life long friends, and becoming a more knowledgeable unionist.
I think the only real downside as mentioned is the threat of a medical issue to cause a loss of license. It’s a real threat that can be completely out of your control. You can mitigate with insurance and maybe a side gig. And hopefully your airline has a good Short and Long Term disability program. But you could go from flying one day to out long term the next for events outside your control. Most pilots think it won’t happen to them, but something you have to factor in depending on your risk aversion personality.
/random thoughts
As already alluded to. Seniority is king. It drives your quality of life and your ability to make choices. Do you upgrade early and go to the bottom of the seniority for your bid status or do you wait? At least you have a choice and after weathering the initial years at the airline you get in a position to control your life a lot better. I switch between turns and picking trips to places I want to hang out in on layover. Other friends of mine chase four day trips that layover where they live (commuters) so they hang out at home mid sequence (Orlando buddy that flies Miami trips). Half my class I got hired with chased wide body FO and are in the 777 and 787 enjoying Europe and South America while I do my DCA turns. The other half went narrow body captain and chased the pay and are sitting at 60% seniority, weekend flying with 3-4 day trips.
The only other comment I have. The majors by and large are undermanned. And all the schedules are experiencing compression where more flying is being built in. This may be felt in some bid statuses and some airlines more than others. But Wall Street is really watching aircraft utilization rates. Ie a given aircraft should be airborne on average more than 10 hours a day. Historically those numbers have been around 11-12 but they have been slipping since you get into a pilot manpower limited state. Throw in vacation and training over head and it gets worse. Not to mention sick impacts. Anyways lots of demand and hopefully all the majors and others pattern bargain off of Delta and also pick up some quality of life controls. Will be an interesting few months leading up to summer.
The only other comment I have. The majors by and large are undermanned. And all the schedules are experiencing compression where more flying is being built in. This may be felt in some bid statuses and some airlines more than others. But Wall Street is really watching aircraft utilization rates. Ie a given aircraft should be airborne on average more than 10 hours a day. Historically those numbers have been around 11-12 but they have been slipping since you get into a pilot manpower limited state. Throw in vacation and training over head and it gets worse. Not to mention sick impacts. Anyways lots of demand and hopefully all the majors and others pattern bargain off of Delta and also pick up some quality of life controls. Will be an interesting few months leading up to summer.
Probably not a unique contribution to the discussion, but for me it's just all about 1) the money-to-BS ratio and 2) how often I actually get to fly.
I love flying the V-22, but the community is at the point where, most of the time, you're lucky to fly more than twice a month unless you're an NSI/WTI. There are junior co-pilots in my squadron who joined us back in October just after we got back from deployment and have literally flown only 2-3 times.
Meanwhile, the admin work has not decreased whatsoever over the years. If anything, it just keeps getting piled on. End of the day, I may be taking a pay cut for a couple years by going to the regionals once I finish my ADSO, but I'd rather do that than continue being an overworked S-shop OIC, or worse, a department head. Nothing has solidified my belief that I'd rather be homeless than a Major in a V-22 squadron than seeing how much our Majors get worked into the ground.
I just want to fly and when I'm off work, actually be off. Didn't think it was so much to ask, but it's clear I'll never get that in the military. At least not while I'm active-duty.
I love flying the V-22, but the community is at the point where, most of the time, you're lucky to fly more than twice a month unless you're an NSI/WTI. There are junior co-pilots in my squadron who joined us back in October just after we got back from deployment and have literally flown only 2-3 times.
Meanwhile, the admin work has not decreased whatsoever over the years. If anything, it just keeps getting piled on. End of the day, I may be taking a pay cut for a couple years by going to the regionals once I finish my ADSO, but I'd rather do that than continue being an overworked S-shop OIC, or worse, a department head. Nothing has solidified my belief that I'd rather be homeless than a Major in a V-22 squadron than seeing how much our Majors get worked into the ground.
I just want to fly and when I'm off work, actually be off. Didn't think it was so much to ask, but it's clear I'll never get that in the military. At least not while I'm active-duty.
Unless the pilot hiring environment changes quite a bit before you're applying, you won't have to go to the regionals at all. And, even if you did, you wouldn't really have to take a pay cut. A regional FO at Envoy, for example, will take home around $130k his first year with current rates and bonuses. I'd be surprised if you couldn't go straight to Southwest or at least a ULCC though.
For what it's worth, I left AD for the same reasons you're describing, and it was the best decision I could have made for my situation and goals.
I know a few guys (me included) that opted to go to a non-airline job after we retired from active duty. A number of them (including me) didn't care for the workload-to-pay ratio, and we eventually went the airline route.
It's not the end-all, be-all for me... but it it pays the bills and gives me the time to do other stuff that I like to do (but it's stuff that doesn't pay the bills).
It's not the end-all, be-all for me... but it it pays the bills and gives me the time to do other stuff that I like to do (but it's stuff that doesn't pay the bills).
Definitely seems like a lot of guys keep their feet in the Reserves at least until they're well and truly established in the majors, furlough-proof lifeboat among other reasons. My last CO (O-6) was also a fairly senior captain with one of the big boys (UAL, I think?) and was fond of saying at drill weekends, "Doing that job allows me to do this job." For a long while the VAW SAU was a FedEx flying club.