The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??

[sevenhelmet]

If you want some ideas to make things tougher, you could start here:
http://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/359363-What-if-there-were-serious-gun-controls?

Some good ideas there. Some bad ones too. I think the point is there is a lot of of room to address gun violence between "doing nothing" and "ban them all". The only problem I see with the "they're not coming for your guns" argument is that- as seen in CA- a little gun law turns into another, and another, and... It would be more accurate to say they're not "coming for your guns" today. Tomorrow? Maybe. (note to mods: end of threadjack.)

NO!!! It is not! This debate is about The Show. Not guns. Not the NRA. Not marketing decisions by anyone one.

Back on topic, I think if this is corporate virtue signaling*, then it's bullshit. Although I imagine a company as large as United or Delta probably has someone on the payroll who can quantify the cost/benefit of something like that, even in the mob-rule times we live in.


*Because corporations are people too!

 

[HuggyU2]

Sevenhelmet, I'm not sure you actually read the entire article.

 

[zippy]

Back on topic, I think if this is corporate virtue signaling*, then it's bullshit. Although I imagine a company as large as United or Delta probably has someone on the payroll who can quantify the cost/benefit of something like that, even in the mob-rule times we live in. *Because corporations are people too!

Airlines tend to be hypersensitive to social media backlash (which cost lots of revenue dollars) these days. The potential for revenue backlash was likely deemed larger for keeping affiliated discounts (that likely didn’t bring in that much money in comparison) and advertising on the NRA website.

The biggest financial threat was corporations who view themselves as socially responsible taking their corporate travel arrangements elsewhere. Those contracts tend to be worth big dollars and be long term. Lots of those corporations have HQs in the Northeast and along the west coast...

On an individual level, were most folks who like to travel as premium passengers and those with Uber elite status going to stop using Delta and/or UAL for travel? No, especially when those carriers are the most convenient for them and they get to feel like they’re important (nothing quite like watching a diamond platinum elite status member lose their mind at a ticket counter because they missed their scheduled flight and are now #6 on the upgrade request list). Any individual aspirations at long term defection would be short lived the first time a DAL/UAL elite traveler was treated like a back end passenger and was deprived of their lounge access, early boarding status and comped food and drinks...

Most passengers riding in back once a year search by lowest ticket price anyways so that wouldn’t have had a big impact... in fact more of those would have looked to fly on Delta or United thinking that the ticket prices would be cheaper after social media fallout.

 

[phrogdriver]

Airlines tend to be hypersensitive to social media backlash (which cost lots of revenue dollars) these days. The potential for revenue backlash was likely deemed larger for keeping affiliated discounts (that likely didn’t bring in that much money in comparison) and advertising on the NRA website.

The biggest financial threat was corporations who view themselves as socially responsible taking their corporate travel arrangements elsewhere. Those contracts tend to be worth big dollars and be long term. Lots of those corporations have HQs in the Northeast and along the west coast...

On an individual level, were most folks who like to travel as premium passengers and those with Uber elite status going to stop using Delta and/or UAL for travel? No, especially when those carriers are the most convenient for them and they get to feel like they’re important (nothing quite like watching a diamond platinum elite status member lose their mind at a ticket counter because they missed their scheduled flight and are now #6 on the upgrade request list). Any individual aspirations at long term defection would be short lived the first time a DAL/UAL elite traveler was treated like a back end passenger and was deprived of their lounge access, early boarding status and comped food and drinks...

Most passengers riding in back once a year search by lowest ticket price anyways so that wouldn’t have had a big impact... in fact more of those would have looked to fly on Delta or United thinking that the ticket prices would be cheaper after social media fallout.

Business is business. They aren’t “virtue signaling,” they’re protecting their corporate image from bad press. They care little about the principle in either direction. I agree that the frequent flyers won’t change, but to say image doesn’t matter...if it didn’t, they wouldn’t need to advertise. They put effort into this for a reason.

Interesting point about the corporate business.

 

[Deleted member 24525]

NO!!! It is not! This debate is about The Show. Not guns. Not the NRA. Not marketing decisions by anyone one.

Meh. It’s about the show and all
The fun stuff that goes with it.

Yes it’s still a good gig.

 

[wink]

Meh. It’s about the show and all
The fun stuff that goes with it.

Yes it’s still a good gig.

Except the gun side show wasn't so fun or useful to anyone interested in the airlines as a career. Not like we can't debate gun control or fun gun stuff elsewhere on AW.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Sevenhelmet, I'm not sure you actually read the entire article.

Damn! You got me. That was a hell of an article to not read in its entirety.

The article does make my case for me though.

 

[phrogdriver]

True enough. There are other places to debate guns.

I think the pros are out there as far as "is it a good gig."

Any cons? I wonder about that sometimes, but it seems people get really sensitive about it really quickly.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Any cons? I wonder about that sometimes, but it seems people get really sensitive about it really quickly.

You don’t wonder about cons, you use them to make snide posts.

The difference is those of us that make snide remark about military stuff do so from experience. You make snide airline remarks from ignorance.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Does the time away from home get tedious? Is it difficult to eat healthy and take care of yourself during trips? Does the flying itself become dull and repetitive; or, how do you keep it interesting?

 

[wink]

Does the time away from home get tedious? Is it difficult to eat healthy and take care of yourself during trips? Does the flying itself become dull and repetitive; or, how do you keep it interesting?

Cons, sure. And I am not commenting out of ignorance. For me, the time away from home does get tedious. I love where I live and would rather be there than most any of my layovers. Of course the airline job allows me more time off. But at a cost of nights away spent in hotels, eating on the run and, if your life is at that point, how your son's first start on the football team went, whether the driveway got shoveled so the wife could get out, etc. If deployed in the Navy you have the same cncerns. But not likely if you get out and are an account rep for a medical equipment company, engineer, or a dentist. It is hard to eat healthy, but doable. The flying absolutely can be boring and routine. Depending on the company and your lifestyle, being on reserve can be hard. Cutting time zones, getting minimum rest, exposure to radiation, irregular meals and possibly questionable diet, can shorten your life span. One bad airmanship decision could mean an end to your career. Tree branch poke out your eye while skiing, career over. Any number of diseases, career over. Get a DUI, standby. No matter the airline, the disability benefits will not come close to replacing the great salary you have based your life on. You can be furloughed, and historically it happens regularly. Terrorists could bomb several planes in a single day. Price of gas spike for any number of reasons. You could be based in location you hate. It could take years of seniority to get where you want. They can cut the flying at your base and if you don't want to chase the seat and commute you could see a signifcant drop in pay when you fall back to a smaller plane or from left seat to right. There is little satisfaction compared to the military or other part time or volunteer gigs I have had. If you like
leadership challenges, they are few and far between and only in a small group setting. Oh, it's a good gig. You gather that from what you read here. But it isn't nirvana. There are down sides. I look forward to going to work, but am ready to be done half way through the first leg. I have no interest in whether anyone goes to the airlines. Not a cheer leader. It's a good job, but still a job.

 

[Deleted member 24525]

Does the time away from home get tedious?

Tedious? It depends...the worst possible case is commuting to reserve-sitting in a crashpad not being used when you could be with your family.
Reserve at home is fantastic.
And I have SOO much time at home. I love having the 4-5 days off between trips with nothing to do but be a SAHD
With trades and manipulation you can maneuver your schedule around to minimize the family impact, and minimize the time twiddling your thumbs in a hotel room.
The only time I find it tedious is when I’m with a slam clicker on a long layover.

Is it difficult to eat healthy and take care of yourself during trips?

Depends...I’d say it’s challenging, but not difficult if you’re disciplined. Every hotel pretty much has a fitness center to get your workouts in-but it’s also fun to jog through a city you’ve never been to before.
I know a handful of people who bring their own meals, but it’s not difficult to eat healthy-it’s just expensive doing it in hotels.

Does the flying itself become dull and repetitive; or, how do you keep it interesting?

No. I mean you have 3 days off sometimes a week off between trips to purge any boringness out.
Heck if you’re in reserve you could go almost a whole month getting paid and not flying.

Maybe hour 3 hours into a 6.5 hour transcon gets boring, but overall the job is not boring.
...and boring is good.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Thanks for the detailed responses! A couple of follow-ons:

What is a slam clicker?

Does being in domicile ensure you will be able to stay at home during reserve at least most of the time?

 

[webmaster]

What is a slam clicker?

The sound the hotel door makes when the guy/gal you are flying your trip closes the door and it's the last time you see them during the layover until the shuttle bus. Basically the term for someone that is anti-social and doesn't want to hang out on the layovers. It can suck when you have a four day trip with three layovers at hotels and are basically left to your own devices. That's why I am a fan of Trip Advisor and can generally find something to do in layover cities.

Does being in domicile ensure you will be able to stay at home during reserve at least most of the time?

It sure helps! I haven't flown in 17 days here on short call reserve. WINNING! But of course the last day of the month and I just jinxed myself and got tagged with a trip tomorrow. Time of year, bid status and manning really factor into how much time off you get on reserve. When I was on the 76 I would sometimes go 7 weeks in between flying during the slow parts of the year, and even run into the need for landing proficiency displacements. On average in my bid status (narrow body now) I am on call for 18 days out of the month, with 13 days off. Of those 18 days I can expect to fly 4-6 days of actually WORK. Lots of tactics on how to get the most quality of life out of flying with the airlines and other tactics on how to make the most $$$. Great part is that you have a choice in how you execute it.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Sweet. Getting my fill of "leadership challeges" at the moment. Even with the cons, your job doesn't sound bad. My wife's concerned about the time away from home, but it looks like there's some flexibility once a certain seniority is achieved. Obviously that part is cyclical and hard to predict, especially years in advance. Knowing that it usually takes me 6-12 months to "settle in" to a new job with the Navy (at which point we all know what happens- time to rotate!), when do most ex-mil guys seem to "settle in" to an airline job?