The Steve Wilkins Memorial Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) Thread

[Uncle Fester]

Any time there is an evolution with above average risk, the CO/XO are expected to be involved. I'd be interested to hear about a CO being fired due solely to the actions of a JO.

Which is why the correct answer to pretty much any question on an OOD board is, "Call the Captain."

Anecdote follows: After the departure of my first Captain, and the three-day party thrown by the survivors, we get underway with the new CO. Old captain was a micro-manager and screamer of the first magnitude, and Sea & Anchor with that guy was always a pain epic, even routine u/w from homeport. So as we're passing Sub Base (Point Loma) headed outbound, the new CO made a point of telling the OOD (2d-tour JO) "Okay, FCO, looks like you've got it wired. I'll be in my cabin. C'mon, XO, let's look at the Chiefs' fitreps."

The stunned looks on everyone's faces were priceless. Being trusted was an utterly foreign feeling.

 

[A4sForever]

The Navy always eats it's own .... so those in the front office don't have to accept any responsibility.

If the ship runs aground ... if it has a collision ... the CO fries.

If the PUEBLO is taken ... it's Bucher's fault ...

If Pearl Harbor is bombed ... CINCUS (sic) fries ...

The list goes on ...

 

[LFCFan]

Quick question that may be somewhat naive....

I would imagine that the SWO and sub communities are quite similar in their day-to-day work - both are trying to maintain and run a naval vessel (or are at least more similar to each other than to aviation). Yet I never hear anything about the sub community being like the SWO community. Why is that?

 

[KBayDog]

Yet I never hear anything about the sub community being like the SWO community.

Uh, like, "Silent Service," and stuff.

 

[Jim123]

I'd say that subs tend attract a different cut of people (both O and E), especially the nukes. It's kinda hard to put your finger on it in a way that briefly sums it up...

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or flippant by saying this.

 

[BusyBee604]

Uh, like, "Silent Service," and stuff.

That... and:

Yet I never hear anything about the sub community being like the SWO community. Why is that?

A major difference is the Subs have always been a volunteer service, which makes quite a difference in crew morale. It also is a more dangerous service, which tends to attract certain personality types (risktakers), who work well together in tight quarters, promoting a high state of morale. In no other community do the lives of the entire ship's crew depend so much upon each other.

I understand that the 'all volunteer' bit has recently gone, in some cases to, 'a few voluntold' due to occasional shortages in Nuke volunteers.
BzB

 

[Spekkio]

Quick question that may be somewhat naive....

I would imagine that the SWO and sub communities are quite similar in their day-to-day work - both are trying to maintain and run a naval vessel (or are at least more similar to each other than to aviation). Yet I never hear anything about the sub community being like the SWO community. Why is that?

All of the above and because wardrooms are so small, DHs get ranked against the others in squadron and on the ship... but it's the squadron one that counts. Being 1 of 1 spot promoted LCDRs or 1 of 2 LTs just for reporting aboard earlier doesn't mean anything, so backstabbing the other guy won't get you anywhere. It's rare to have an O-3 DIVO get a fitrep other than his 1 of 1 EOT, and your nuke tracom performance + PNEO grade is what mostly determines if you'll be the Eng or not.

Also Officers on a sub are usually too busy to worry about the stuff SWOs do.

 

[BackOrdered]

All of the above, plus what Spekkio said, and submariners have the Submarine Song. SWOs have no such song.

 

[BigRed389]

Quick question that may be somewhat naive....

I would imagine that the SWO and sub communities are quite similar in their day-to-day work - both are trying to maintain and run a naval vessel (or are at least more similar to each other than to aviation). Yet I never hear anything about the sub community being like the SWO community. Why is that?

On my ship, my LPO was a STS that went surface for medical reasons, and we had 2 prior sub E's (unknown rate, 1 fast attack, 1 boomer) that went SWO.

Pretty much all agreed QOL was far better on the surface side but that the enlisted qual program to earn dolphins was far more relevant and rigorous than ESWS. From a tactical aspect, my LPO also qual'd SUWC, and he thought the operational aspect on the surface side as more dynamic and complex (different/multiple problems simultaneously).

That said, the only real overlap is in the routine stuff (admin and maintenance programs). Nobody enjoys talking about that aspect of their job, not even aviators. Ooh, he filed maintenance reports, turned a SORTS/DRRS-N box from red to green, and got his E-3 evals in on time! He is the most interesting SWO/Sub/Pilot in the world!

 

[Spekkio]

The other factor is that Submariners and Aviators don't work on the same ships, so you naturally won't hear about Submariners on an aviation board. There are two sides to every story, and aviators' status as not ship's company can breed jealousy and malcontent. While we don't have pilots, we had IW types who acted like we inconvenienced them to interrupt 3 hour video game sessions for training or that they really did have to turn it off when we rigged for reduced electrical. I had a power school instructor who told us a story about how his aviator roommate on the CVN got mad and yelled at him when the instructor was racked out after 3 hours of sleep because he was "making too much noise" while getting dressed and disturbing the aviator's 10 hours of rack time.

Now throw in some community ribbing about how SWO uniforms are so dorky and flight suits + brown shoes are the shiznit because that's what the cool kids do and you can understand why there might be some tension.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

On my ship, my LPO was a STS that went surface for medical reasons, and we had 2 prior sub E's (unknown rate, 1 fast attack, 1 boomer) that went SWO.

Pretty much all agreed QOL was far better on the surface side but that the enlisted qual program to earn dolphins was far more relevant and rigorous than ESWS. From a tactical aspect, my LPO also qual'd SUWC, and he thought the operational aspect on the surface side as more dynamic and complex (different/multiple problems simultaneously).

That said, the only real overlap is in the routine stuff (admin and maintenance programs). Nobody enjoys talking about that aspect of their job, not even aviators. Ooh, he filed maintenance reports, turned a SORTS/DRRS-N box from red to green, and got his E-3 evals in on time! He is the most interesting SWO/Sub/Pilot in the world!

The sub guys I worked with that were surfaced pretty much said the same thing as your guys.

It seems that all the former sub guys I worked with had a difficult time adjusting to life on the surface side, they would get some aspects of being in the surface fleet but just couldn't wrap their head around it all, too bad as many were great guys.

 

[Spekkio]

Yea like "working hours" underway... I mean, wtf mate?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Yea like "working hours" underway... I mean, wtf mate?

Some had a hard time managing 30 people vice say 5, others couldn't get away from the "in the sub community we did it this way", a few had a hard time qualifying ESWS, now these were all guys that were surfaced after being in the sub community over 10 years.

I will say when it came to procedures or QA they were always spot on.

 

[Spekkio]

You mean LPOs in the skimmer Navy don't "manage" divisions by: assigning 90% of primary and collateral duties to the couple of PO2-PO1s who are competent and motivated to advance, divide up the other 10% of duties among the rest except for the window 1-2 lickers, who they hide from everyone?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

You mean LPOs in the skimmer Navy don't "manage" divisions by: assigning 90% of primary and collateral duties to the couple of PO2-PO1s who are competent and motivated to advance, divide up the other 10% of duties among the rest except for the window 1-2 lickers, who they hide from everyone?

You know I can't say that.