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The Steve Wilkins Memorial Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) Thread
- Thread starter Steve Wilkins
- Start date
No idea what's popular with the kids nowadays. You can't go too wrong with anything CRUDES (DDG/CG/FFG). Frigates and destroyers do much more independant steaming than the cruisers, which means more opportunity to get the signoffs you need for your pin. The command ships were at the bottom of everyone's list - they are more or less welded to the pier and if they do get u/w, it's only to go from point A to point B. 'Phibs are somewhere in the middle. They weren't letting anyone go to carriers or PC's for a first tour then, and AFAIK that's still the policy. The guys I know who went to minesweepers were hating life.
navybronxbomber
New Member
I heard minesweepers were pretty hot for ship selection now a days. Seems pretty cool, small boat tight knit crew. Thanks for your help.
So, pretty much par for the (SWO) course, then?
Hating it even more so than ordinary SWO-hate. The gist of it was, the mine boats are captained and otherwise run by the SPECOPS guys; ordinary SWOs got tagged with the shitty "laundry and morale officer" jobs. Took forever to get their pins because the EOD-bound guys had priority, etc. Between Academy classmates and guys from SWOS, I knew about a half-dozen guys who went that route, and they all said they regretted it.
My info is a few years time-late, and I understand there's been some reorganization of the counter-mine house in the interim, so YMMV. Still, traditionally, MCM is not where it's at for young SWOlets. You'll learn more about being a SWO faster in CRUDES.
If you want to go the weird-Harold routes like Tomahawk, PC's, Landing Craft, RIVRON, etc, then go to a CRUDES boat for your first Divvo tour, get your pin spiffy quick, generally piss excellence, then go crazy on subsequent tours. SWO retention is so awful you really have to work to fuck up a career these days.
Going back to the resistance to change theme:
I have to imagine it is well known that something needs to change inside the community, but it just isn't happening.
I can remember reading an article (I think in Proceedings) as a MID that discussed the need for the SWO community to stop running itself ragged, start getting some sleep, and start taking a more team oriented approach.
As a 1390 that spends a lot of time not on a ship, and not seeing what the SWOs do, I hear little tidbits from friends that chose the surface route, and the only thing I hear is how ruthless and cutthroat the community is.
I dont know exactly what they are referring to when they say that fellow JOs stab each other in the back, but it sounds like they are in a completely different Navy than I am in. Here in the TRACOM even when we are ranked against each other and most want their shot at Tailhook, fellow students are constantly gouging each other up and helping their buddies do better in school.
Someone said earlier that until the number of lives lost and steel bent crosses a certain threshold the community will stay the same and continue to resist change. I suppose thats understandable, and maybe aviation just learned the lessons sooner than the SWOs. We hear constantly that NATOPS is written in blood, as with many of our regulations... unfortunate and morbid and horrible as it may be, its entirely possible that more people need to die before the problem becomes "real" and the surface fleet has to rework itself.
I have to imagine it is well known that something needs to change inside the community, but it just isn't happening.
I can remember reading an article (I think in Proceedings) as a MID that discussed the need for the SWO community to stop running itself ragged, start getting some sleep, and start taking a more team oriented approach.
As a 1390 that spends a lot of time not on a ship, and not seeing what the SWOs do, I hear little tidbits from friends that chose the surface route, and the only thing I hear is how ruthless and cutthroat the community is.
I dont know exactly what they are referring to when they say that fellow JOs stab each other in the back, but it sounds like they are in a completely different Navy than I am in. Here in the TRACOM even when we are ranked against each other and most want their shot at Tailhook, fellow students are constantly gouging each other up and helping their buddies do better in school.
Someone said earlier that until the number of lives lost and steel bent crosses a certain threshold the community will stay the same and continue to resist change. I suppose thats understandable, and maybe aviation just learned the lessons sooner than the SWOs. We hear constantly that NATOPS is written in blood, as with many of our regulations... unfortunate and morbid and horrible as it may be, its entirely possible that more people need to die before the problem becomes "real" and the surface fleet has to rework itself.
Who told you that?
EDIT: Not a dig at you man, just wondering where you're getting your gouge. PS- it's wrong.
navybronxbomber
New Member
Guess I wont go SWO haha
Some Ensign who was in the higher middle range for ship selection told me he wanted to go minesweeper but all the slots were taken up. He then told me some SWO had told him its a pretty hot platform these days lol...
That cutthroat stuff sounds pretty nasty, I've heard that from numerous people. It's sorta strange because on my Sub summer cruise I just was on none of the Junior Officers seemed to act like that at all. The boat seemed to run like a big frat.
The cutthroat rumors I hear about the Surface community are quite scary. Thanks for the info everyone!
Some Ensign who was in the higher middle range for ship selection told me he wanted to go minesweeper but all the slots were taken up. He then told me some SWO had told him its a pretty hot platform these days lol...
That cutthroat stuff sounds pretty nasty, I've heard that from numerous people. It's sorta strange because on my Sub summer cruise I just was on none of the Junior Officers seemed to act like that at all. The boat seemed to run like a big frat.
The cutthroat rumors I hear about the Surface community are quite scary. Thanks for the info everyone!
bronxbomber,
Go to this page and click on "Spring 2009 NROTC Ship List." It will show you the numbered ranking of every NROTC Mid from last semester and what ship they went to. For the record, even the lowest ranked dude in the country had the option to go to a Minesweep in San Diego...and he chose something else.
I could easily bang out a page on what type of ship to pick, feel free to PM me or post more specific questions if you've got them.
As far as SWOs being cutthroat, I haven't seen that- it's probably more of an issue amongst department heads, as they're more career-oriented guys gunning for command. I can't see most JOs throwing a fellow ENS/JG under the bus to "get ahead" but I'm sure there are some tools out there who would.
Go to this page and click on "Spring 2009 NROTC Ship List." It will show you the numbered ranking of every NROTC Mid from last semester and what ship they went to. For the record, even the lowest ranked dude in the country had the option to go to a Minesweep in San Diego...and he chose something else.
I could easily bang out a page on what type of ship to pick, feel free to PM me or post more specific questions if you've got them.
As far as SWOs being cutthroat, I haven't seen that- it's probably more of an issue amongst department heads, as they're more career-oriented guys gunning for command. I can't see most JOs throwing a fellow ENS/JG under the bus to "get ahead" but I'm sure there are some tools out there who would.
navybronxbomber
New Member
Why do you have to scare us guys about to come in??? lol
We're already there. All you need to do is walk down the piers at Norfolk and see all the ships that are moored everyday.
navybronxbomber
New Member
Thanks
Thanks for all your help. I guess that Ensign lied to me lol. The thing which seems pretty cool about Minesweepers is the fraternity feeling of it. The only thing I fear about them is that they don't go on nearly as cool deployments as DDG's, CG's, or FFG's. There is almost no info on MCM's so I'm trying to get as much info on them before I head back and have a chance to talk with my SWO advisor, who I'm sure will steer me away from them.
Thanks for all your help. I guess that Ensign lied to me lol. The thing which seems pretty cool about Minesweepers is the fraternity feeling of it. The only thing I fear about them is that they don't go on nearly as cool deployments as DDG's, CG's, or FFG's. There is almost no info on MCM's so I'm trying to get as much info on them before I head back and have a chance to talk with my SWO advisor, who I'm sure will steer me away from them.
flyersfan12
New Member
From taking time and reading through more of the threads, I'm under the impression that while SWO-dom allows an officer to experience alot of things that have no counterpart in the civilian world, it comes with a ton of headaches (much more so than the other communities).
Headaches and hassles aside, how personally satisfying is it to be able to encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors as an SWO? Does trying to build a positive environment and watching the people under your guidance excel at their jobs make up for the tediousness of SWO-life?
Headaches and hassles aside, how personally satisfying is it to be able to encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors as an SWO? Does trying to build a positive environment and watching the people under your guidance excel at their jobs make up for the tediousness of SWO-life?
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, man. "Encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors"? You sound like you write Official Navy Bullshit for a living. You sure you're not a troll from CNO's office?
Being a SWO is misery on a stick.* If you just read the job description, it's not a bad gig - paperwork, and some boat-driving - and it shouldn't be a bad job. There are some good days and some upsides to the job and it's definitely more interesting than filling out TPS reports in some office park, but on the whole, the vicious backstabbing and buffoonery of some of your fellow officers make for a very painful way to serve your country.
* - the stick is shoved up your ass, in case you were wondering