AJB37
Well-Known Member
Yeah that jet looks huge in comparison
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The Tomcat Legacy; 35+ years from Fleet Air Defender to Recce to Precision Strike
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Yeah that jet looks huge in comparison
I'm sure the guy who was flying with him was on our side when that midair occured. Or did they "engage in air combat"?
WishICouldFly
UO Future Pork Chop
Snap, I forgot it at home. I left my logic alongside, too.
The air combat comment wasn't related to the air show crash, I was just insinuating that our pilots are better than theirs.
Here is another one or two F-14's (or maybe some more F-14's - how many can you find?) at Khatami Air Base in Esfahan.
There are others who have quite a list of Google-Earth sightings of Iranian F-14's (sorry, I don't have their links). But there is an ongoing and interesting discussion of Iranian F-14's over at the F-14 Association website.
Long ago, I was impressed with their (under the Shah of Iran) wide dispersion of their aircraft at Khatami (as is evident in Google-Earth), and especially with their formidable protective revetments. Although it doesn't show on Google, those revetments are massive, and could take some major hits. They are made of boulders and concrete (not corregated sheet-metal as they do appear), extraordinarily many feet thick at the base, and thinning out at the top. I think they could withstand some serious hits.
Khatami so many years ago was, in my opinion well built for war. Their widely dispersed aircraft and massive protective revetments made quite an impression upon me – one who was far more used to smart, close-quartered, military flight lines bunched tightly together ........... and very exposed and vulnerable to the most meager of attacks. (hopefully, things have changed.)
There are others who have quite a list of Google-Earth sightings of Iranian F-14's (sorry, I don't have their links). But there is an ongoing and interesting discussion of Iranian F-14's over at the F-14 Association website.
Long ago, I was impressed with their (under the Shah of Iran) wide dispersion of their aircraft at Khatami (as is evident in Google-Earth), and especially with their formidable protective revetments. Although it doesn't show on Google, those revetments are massive, and could take some major hits. They are made of boulders and concrete (not corregated sheet-metal as they do appear), extraordinarily many feet thick at the base, and thinning out at the top. I think they could withstand some serious hits.
Khatami so many years ago was, in my opinion well built for war. Their widely dispersed aircraft and massive protective revetments made quite an impression upon me – one who was far more used to smart, close-quartered, military flight lines bunched tightly together ........... and very exposed and vulnerable to the most meager of attacks. (hopefully, things have changed.)
Ok, but think this through.....
They have 2 choices:
1. They can hide them and never fly them, which means their pilots would get no training and be absolutely worthless.
2. They can fly them, and once they go airborne, they become much harder to hide.
But what I really want to know is what percent of Iranian pilots get jets?
There are still a few flying, as evidenced by them still regularly showing up at Iranian airshows. The operative question being, how much of the plane works besides the engines, wings, gear and flight controls? That is a better question........
Iran has not bought a lot of aircraft from either Russia or the PRC in the past few years. Their purchases of MiG-29's was fairly small and their purchases from China have been of the warmed over MiG-21, F-7's. If and when they buy sophisticated Russian aircraft like the Flanker then they might retire their F-14's. Until then, the Tomcat still darkens the skies over Iran.
P.S. One thing I am suprised no else has mentioned, just because there are F-14's sitting on the pad at certain airbases does not mean they fly. It is rather common to leave aircraft where they are after they are retired all over the world, especially third world countires but even here as well. Having taxied past the F-14 and F-5 parts birds many times a few years ago at Fallon gives proof of that.
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
Highly doubtful, who maintains them or would even have a clue on how to? They're unrevised maintenance practices are as obsolete as the components themselves.
"Somebody does."
As of February of this year, noted author and somewhat of an expert in this area, with very good open sources inside Iran, Tom Cooper claims there are a total of 44 active [F-14] airframes in Iran:
"I have a list of 44 active airframes, supported by reports directly from within the IRIAF, photos, videos, and reports about sightings from USN, USAF, USMC and RAF fliers."
"At least three additional airframes are currently under overhaul at IACI. For example, 3-6044 - an airframe not seen since delivery - was photographed there just two weeks back."
Link
Of course I have no idea of the veracity of his claims, and I would certainly question those aircraft "mission capability." But I do know they do still fly. And that is a major reason we are de-milling (destroying) all our retired F-14's, rather than putting them in the 'bone-yard' at Davis-Montham. "At least three additional airframes are currently under overhaul at IACI. For example, 3-6044 - an airframe not seen since delivery - was photographed there just two weeks back."
Link
Tom Cooper's numbers tend to hold their weight. As to why the Iranians would like to use the old F-14s. Well, that radar can see a long ways off. Further than Mig-29s, F-15s, F-16s, although I'm not sure of the distance of the Su-27 (and it's variants). I think some of our disbelief of the Iran airframes comes from our assumptions of their usage. We used them as carrier based fighters, where I believe the Iranians use them for land based multimission platforms. I don't think they have put the punishment on those airframes that we would.
Another key difference is what they would consider an 'up' bird and take flying and what we would do with the same plane.......
The Iranians are a lot more resourceful than many give them credit for. With almost 30 years of embargos behind them the F-4 is still the backbone of their force. Now, how combat effective are they.........
How times have changed……..
Here is an 8-minute 1977 Grumman promo of the company setting up in Iran for their F-14 deliveries and Iranian pilot training.
This campy vid's complete with a '70's, Leave it to Beaver soundtrack.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sVlrqv30o1k
Here is an 8-minute 1977 Grumman promo of the company setting up in Iran for their F-14 deliveries and Iranian pilot training.
This campy vid's complete with a '70's, Leave it to Beaver soundtrack.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sVlrqv30o1k
Recidivist
Registered User
The Iranians are a lot more resourceful than many give them credit for. With almost 30 years of embargos behind them the F-4 is still the backbone of their force. Now, how combat effective are they.........
There's actually what appears to be an F-4 at the airfield. Camo paint, two pads to the left of the given coordinates. Additionally there is what looks like a mig 15 or 17 in the main parking area to the right of runway 13R.
You guys keep focusing on the Iranian hardware and how well it does or doesn't "work" -- all highly speculative at this point in time.
With the exception of Catmando -- I don't think ANY of you know what you're talking about -- you're all mouthing what someone else has read or said -- and I'd take Cat's input because he had hands-on (I believe) with the Iranian pilots when he delivered F-14's .....
I also, had "hands-on" with Iranian pilots --- the "best of their best" when the Shah was trying to build a world class airline just prior to his fall from power. Their raw material was shit. Yet they represented the top of their social strata, in terms of education, benefits, and "westernization". And still ..... they were way, way below the average US flight student in terms of technical acumen, psychological depth, and that hard-to-quantify pilot's "hand to eye" coordination. Their SA was non-existent.....
The Shah himself came onboard the ship in 1974 and we gave him a firepower demonstration to make your eyes water and your ears hurt and a VIP tour of everything we had at the time. His main comment .... repeated over and over while he trooped the line of airshow participants, shaking our hands .... was how he wished "his airmen were as good; were as accomplished" as ours ....
Personally ... I've always maintained it's the MAN -- his skills, both developed and inbred, his training, and that bottom line -- his "killer instinct" -- with the obvious requirement of how well he employs his machine that will overcome the enemy in battle ... now or in the future. It always has in the past .... you just gotta keep your head on a swivel.
With the exception of Catmando -- I don't think ANY of you know what you're talking about -- you're all mouthing what someone else has read or said -- and I'd take Cat's input because he had hands-on (I believe) with the Iranian pilots when he delivered F-14's .....
I also, had "hands-on" with Iranian pilots --- the "best of their best" when the Shah was trying to build a world class airline just prior to his fall from power. Their raw material was shit. Yet they represented the top of their social strata, in terms of education, benefits, and "westernization". And still ..... they were way, way below the average US flight student in terms of technical acumen, psychological depth, and that hard-to-quantify pilot's "hand to eye" coordination. Their SA was non-existent.....
The Shah himself came onboard the ship in 1974 and we gave him a firepower demonstration to make your eyes water and your ears hurt and a VIP tour of everything we had at the time. His main comment .... repeated over and over while he trooped the line of airshow participants, shaking our hands .... was how he wished "his airmen were as good; were as accomplished" as ours ....
Personally ... I've always maintained it's the MAN -- his skills, both developed and inbred, his training, and that bottom line -- his "killer instinct" -- with the obvious requirement of how well he employs his machine that will overcome the enemy in battle ... now or in the future. It always has in the past .... you just gotta keep your head on a swivel.
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
"Somebody does."
As of February of this year, noted author and somewhat of an expert in this area, with very good open sources inside Iran, Tom Cooper claims there are a total of 44 active [F-14] airframes in Iran:
"I have a list of 44 active airframes, supported by reports directly from within the IRIAF, photos, videos, and reports about sightings from USN, USAF, USMC and RAF fliers."Of course I have no idea of the veracity of his claims, and I would certainly question those aircraft "mission capability." But I do know they do still fly. And that is a major reason we are de-milling (destroying) all our retired F-14's, rather than putting them in the 'bone-yard' at Davis-Montham.
"At least three additional airframes are currently under overhaul at IACI. For example, 3-6044 - an airframe not seen since delivery - was photographed there just two weeks back."
Link
"Somebody may", remember what I said in my original post about obsolete practices and equipment. Wires, metal, plastics ect ALL decompose, even in the desert. It would be pretty hard to chase down the gremlins without the tools, knowledge or equipment. What little expertise they had has probably died off or got buttplugged to death by some imam. I doubt Tom Cooper knows the difference between a crescent and a ford wrench. Iraq hasn't fought Iran in air to air in how many years? Doesn't mean shit now I would think.
Remember the DC-10 center engine fiasco due to simple faulty maintenance practices hanging it? Happens all the time with particular airplanes, E-2's you better not fold the wings in anything other than 15 degrees, 2800's you better not run them more than 1000 brake for a long period, better watch your tits with turbo props ect......
No doubt a Tomcat has a zillion things to watch for, do's and don'ts. Somehow I doubt Abdul conveyed the message to Mohamed over the last 3 decades. Watching them work on a wingsweep mechanism might be more fun than watching a monkey phucking a football. They might have slopped one in the air once in awhile, the gun "might" even fire a few rounds but I doubt it's a very capable machine anymore.
Just my opinion.