THE VP DEBATE: Thursday Night Fights, Round 1 ... WHO "WON" .. ???

[mmx1]

What we saw today was Biden trying to put John McCain's record on trial and tie him to President Bush. All of our current problems are rooted in the last 8 years, the last 8 years were all f'd up, and McCain is a continuation of all that f'd up-ness. OK. That's the Obama/Biden ticket. Biden ran off a bunch of vote records, statistics, and put 20+ years of senate work for McCain on trial. He sounding like an old politician talking politics. Yawn.

Laying out quantitatively McCain's voting history is a "yawn"? Yes, granted, Obama doesn't have much of a history to go on, but Biden definitely presented a stronger case by drawing on McCain's record.

They will want you to think that is because she is a stupid woman who can't understand big issues. Lucky for us, most people understand that those generalities are synonyms for principles. That's something that Americans can relate to.

Well, she certainly didn't disabuse us of the notion that she doesn't understand the issues. Those generalities aren't synonyms for principles, they're just conservative talking points and catch-phrases that make the base feel good, but don't say squat.

 

[A4sForever]

She is good at rattling off talking points irrespective of whether they actually are relevent to the question asked...... FAIL.

Right ... but not the 5 time Vietnam deferment (a record which ties the current VP), bad day hair transplant recipient, serial plagiarizer ... yes ??? The guy who has been in Congress forever and yet nobody cares ... he doesn't use talking points, does he .... ???

Politicians don't use talking points .... do they??

I love the thought processes of some of you guys ...

 

[Bevo16]

Well, she certainly didn't disabuse us of the notion that she doesn't understand the issues. Those generalities aren't synonyms for principles, they're just conservative talking points and catch-phrases that make the base feel good, but don't say squat.

Well, then let's cancel the debates and just have a a 50 questions multiple choice test. That will be a lot of fun.

OBTW, If people were living by those conservative talking points, we would not be in this stupid fucking economic mess that we are in now. You know principles like not going into stupid ass crazy debt. Not buying shit you don't need or can't afford, etc.

 

[Spekkio]

Honestly, I just watched the debate to watch the equivelent of two retards competing in the special olympics. Neither one delivered, so I'm disappointed.

Raptor posted articles that took me 20 minutes to read detailing the foreign policy issues that the next President would have to face. Candidates can't explain their stances on that and why in 2 minutes, and there were no specific questions about potential foreign policy issues facing the next president anyway. In other words, as I said before, the debate is relatively worthless as to figuring out where candidates stand on issues and which one has more knowledges.

OBTW, If people were living by those conservative talking points, we would not be in this stupid fucking economic mess that we are in now. You know principles like not going into stupid ass crazy debt. Not buying shit you don't need or can't afford, etc.

Eh, the progressive income tax is a method that the government uses to regulate our economy. Just because the GOP advocates lower taxes does not mean that they stand for no regulation. They just differ from Democrats in regards to where they want to apply that regulation. The GOP run Congress and Presidency continually offered tax incentives to financial companies over the past few years in order to encourage spending to "jumpstart" the economy. Eventually, it bubbled and then popped, and here we are today.

Not saying that private companies and people who took loans aren't at fault, but the GOP isn't exactly innocent here, either.

 

[rugby mike]

I thought Biden's best moment was when he talked about when he lost his wife and daughter and had his sons hospitalized. That was the only moment in the debate where I thought one of the candidates just spoke to the voters and not a rehearsed answer.

Palin didn't make the mistake that everyone was looking for. I think she held her own considering the foreign experience Biden has. All in all this debate probably will change no one's mind on who to vote for...

But since McCain had more to lose, I think it is a win for Palin

 

[Redux]

I don't like anything about Biden...

His wife is kinda hot and I bet she wants me, no, I'm sure she wants me. I like that about Biden but thats it.

 

[Dingobat]

^^ Hahahaha

Anyways, back to reality..
Straight up murder happened to Palin, and it was self inflicted. Which is the single most succinct way in which once could characterize the republican campaign to date.

 

[wink]

Fight's ON ... !!!

Voting is now open ... however, in the essence of honesty, no motor-voter registrations allowed.

No Democrats then?

 

[jt71582]

I'm tired of the Obama/Biden ticket relentlessly focusing on the past. It's clear that Americans want some kind of change. With congressional approval ratings at their lowest, as well as POTUS approval ratings pretty low too, we're all pretty clear that Americans want to see something happen.

So Palin comes in and talks about how things will work if/when she and McCain take office. Biden comes in and talks about how George W. Bush sucked and we're in a bad place right now.

Not to mention Biden interrupting the moderator several times to get his last little kicks in before the questions changed. So the Obama/Biden people run around yelling Hope! Change! ad nauseum, and then turn around and slam Palin for being folksy and "like a bad disney movie."

Sorry, I guess what they really wanted when they said "change" was a guy who has spent more time campaigning for President than he has been actually voting in the Senate, and another Washington insider from Wilmington/Scranton (wait, where are you from?).

 

[wink]

Huh?

Do no harm, is that how low the bar is?

As compared to doing harm, like Obama will, that was my point. But now that you mention it, doing no harm is the standard for a VP candidate.

I don't know, 4 schools (one was twice) in 5/6 years? I am no elitist when it comes to education, but really?

She was chasing scholarships and working her way through college. Changing schools does not reflect on her intelligence, the point being debated, nor truly the quality of the education or the value she gained from it.

And since when were interviews of prospective office holders supposed to be 'friendly'?

Never said they were supposed to. But it is demonstrably so that most DEM interviews are not as hard ball as she got. She should have done better. But it hasn't been fair.

 

[picklesuit]

Okay...first, to get it out there, I am voting McCain and I liked Gov. Palin before this debate.

That being said, I call this debate a draw.

Sen. Biden had nothing to win in this debate, he was really there to bounce DNC points off of Gov. Palin and hope she would get the deer-in-headlights look enough times to match the heavily edited K. Couric interview. He has a lot of experience, he is a Democrat, he has nothing exciting to bring to the table, just your standard run-of-the-mill VP candidate...What Sen. Obama needed to bring the nervous middle to his ticket.
He did exactly what he was supposed to do. He flexed his experience muscle, showed a good command of a wide variety of issues, and didn't make any stoopid mistakes...he bent the facts enough times to be called on it within the first 10 minutes after the debate on several different stations, but he is a politician, it is expected...

This debate was really about Gov. Palin...was she as retarded as MSNBC and CNN would have you believe? Is she just a hail-mary? Or is she a serious contender to bring a different voice to the RNC that would not only bring in the base but also some of the Hillary Clinton die-hards? I think tonight the bar was set artificially low...that she did not get the same treatment a Dan Quayle or Al Gore would have received. That being said, she came in extremely well prepared, and was herself. She brought up good points about the opponents ticket, while deflecting the BUSH=McCAIN propaganda we keep hearing (Sen. Biden actually said George Bush 5 times in the same sentence, I counted)

So on style points they were even.

On Content...I think her aggressiveness in the economic and energy policies were well received, her points about Sen. McCain trying to avert the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae meltdown and the opposition it received were finally brought out on the public stage. I think Sen. McCain needs to do a better job bringing that out. She was really good at pointing out the flaws in the DNC version of energy policy, and embracing her difference with her running mate on the same (ANWR) She really struck home when she started talking about the "Sidelines of the Soccer game" remarks...I think she swung and missed in regards to Afghanistan/Iran/Pakistan...she pretty much followed the talking points and Sen. Biden called her on it.

Sen. Biden started out surprisingly weak in the debate...he seemed almost flustered a few times, I wonder if he thought he could walk in and steamroll Gov. Palin...He seemed out of sorts in regard to the economy, especially when called on the Tax increases/spending increases/government intrusiveness his campaign has embraced...he really came into his own when talking foreign policy (even though I don't agree with him on all of his points) and had Gov. Palin back on her heels a few times...especially when he said the general incharge of Afghanistan refuted her ideas on a "surge" there...

So, like I said, a draw. If a person was going to vote DNC before tonight, they still will...the same for those voting RNC...I doubt there are many people really going to change their votes at this point in the game...now it becomes about energizing the party, making them think they can win, and getting people out to vote. That means each campaign will have to convince the media to convince the idiot masses that they are still in the game. If MSNBC/CNN/NBC/CBS/ABC keep reporting that Obama has a 6000 point lead, some Repub's will get discouraged and not vote...same people who don't want to play when their team is behind...but if FOX can keep the public thinking that McCain is just 2 votes from that win, and every vote counts, people will keep interested and get off their ass and vote.

I think now it will start coming down to individual states...Sen. McCain is already pulling out of Michigan (ACORN did a good job up there) and concentrating on states like FL and Ohio. I'm sure the DNC is doing the same in UT/WY etc...

Barring any weird stoopid shit between here and 11/4 (bad debate/indictment/etc.) the polls will tighten up again...some bounce from the VP debate, plus the $700B dose of Socialism will be old news in 2 weeks (remember Ike...anyone? didn't think so) and we will be on to the next "big" story...and we will come down to 2 or 3 key states (FL/OH/VA)
and a couple of lawsuits on 11/5...

Can't wait!!!

 

[Random8145]

Are you really going to say this? Honestly? You do realize that after finally settling on a college, she in the end got a journalism degree from U of Idaho. Somehow I don't think that quite compares to Obama or Biden's educations. You can claim life experience all you want but she hasn't exactly proven herself as intelligent on...well...anything yet. I'd be happy to see my potential president (yes, McCain is old and she really is that close to the highest office in this country) show some sort of intelligence. As it stands, she absolutely frightens me. McCain has a legitimate chance of winning and I just want to know that she has more potential than I've seen so far. I'd certainly be more comfortable if she was able to knock it out of the park this evening.

Two things:

1) Not to sound crude, but I don't give a rat's ass about where anybody "went to college." I could get up there and slaughter Obama and Biden on quite a few of these economic and tax issues, and I have no college degree.

They call Harvard-Yale-Princeton "HYP" for a reason I think.

2) She (Palin) has one hell of a lot more common sense than Senator Obama from what I can tell, and Senator Biden who, for over thirty years in government, seems to not even be familiar with basic economics 101.

As for who won the debate, I think overall Governor Palin by a slight margin, although she could have completely crushed Biden like a bug if she'd been a bit more knowledgeable about the economics/taxes/healthcare issue.

But otherwise, considering Senator Biden has been in office for over thirty years, I think he did very poorly. If Palin had a lot more experience, and more knowledge, she'd have crushed Biden like a toad I think. All he did was recite some outright lies and the same old Leftwing talking points we have been hearing for years.

Also, was it me, or was it a bit of a gaffe on Biden's part when he said (paraphrasing), "I am not going to change. I've been in office for thirty-five years now, people can judge me how they wish to, blah blah blah..." thing is, you running mate's whole message is "Obama/Biden: CHANGE We Can Believe In."

McCain definitely needs to be ready for these next debates.

 

[jt71582]

^ That, plus I'd totally let her governate me.

 

[rookie7734]

I make my living teaching executives how to speak and influence their audience. I've been trained by some of the top speakers in the country.

Tonight was not about anything specific that was said by either candidate. It was about the impressions that they left on the audience. 93% of what influences people is their voice qualities and their body language. Reagan was masterful at using both, after all that's what he did as an actor for so many years before he went into politics.

Gov. Palin was superb in utilizing both her voice qualities and her body language tonight. It is not what you say, but how you say it that resonates with people. I think that tomorrow you will find that her overall ratings will be high in the press and her performance will reignite the Republican party.

I also think that you will see a slight upward tick in the polls for McCain as well.

 

[Random8145]

Even though I hope you are right, it is sad if most of the electorate only go by how things are said, instead of also taking into account what is being said. Both are important ("what" is said can be fine, but if you can tell the person is a lying SOB, it won't work).

Also, this could be bad for the McCain-Obama debates. Short, old man, versus tall, younger man....

Palin does need to work on eliminating the word "Also" from her sentences, she really likes that word! and Obama needs to work on eliminating the "uhhs" and "ums" he is prone to making.