Will the world end if we got rid of all our carriers?
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TOPGUN and WTI: similarities / differences
- Thread starter pourts
- Start date
Carriers we have used with regularity in their intended role the past 70 years or so.
I am hard pressed to think of a time we have utilized Harriers in their intended role where other fixed wing aircraft either carrier or land based did the same job.
Multi-role, multi-service platforms aren't going to be great at anything. The most successful was the F-4 and is wasn't great at anything (except smoking) but it was good at a lot of things. Over 5000 Phantoms were produced and they were in the inventories of just about every friendly air force in the world. The F-35 has a lot of new bells and whistles that will take time to sort out. The program is way past the point were it could fail. We'll force it to work, we're good at that.
danpass
Well-Known Member
Well, to continue the thread hijack, its happening now.
I suspect with future F-35B detachments it will happen more often.
http://www.examiner.com/article/budget-cuts-to-pull-carrier-roosevelt-from-the-fight-with-isis
Older article:
http://www.navytimes.com/story/mili...entcom-islamic-state-group-presence/28554047/
It will seem kind of silly to have spent all that capital on our LHA/LHD fleet, then, no? I'm certainly no expert on how an ESG operates, but I would imagine that they didn't include a requirement for a TACAIR capability just cause it's cool.
So no, the world won't end? Cool.
Ultimately, this is a good thing on many levels. This it will serve to wean COCOMs off the CSG crack they've become accustomed to. There's a price to be paid in maintenance and readiness for the OPTEMPO that their demand on our fleet and our Sailors over the last 15 years. That bill is now coming due, so enjoy your <1.0 CSG presence in CENTCOM.
We can utilize them with just helos, they could get their tacair support from the carriers if needed for actual operations like Grenada or the Gulf War.
Land-based aircraft make up the bulk of the missions right now, unless it is an LHA/LHD full of Harriers their contribution would be very small with little impact.
It would for any Marines near a contested shore without a carrier battle group nearby.
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danpass
Well-Known Member
What carrier?
That's the point in this particular case involving OIR.
That's pretty much the other point.
When there's no carrier around Iran sends a convoy to Yemen. In the meantime the land based presence was the same whole time.
(then there's the possible political constraint involved in launching from land bases)
We're experiencing the next crossroad in aviation, atmospheric and exoatmospheric with the AW609 tiltrotor and companies like SpaceX.
I'd liken the 609 and the plopter to a WWI biplane. They represent just the tip of what we'll see in the next 30-40 years.
Specifically, in naval aviation, I'm seeing the crossroads of the future of vertical flight. The Harrier was merely proof of concept, just something to break the ice. The F-35B, the river, is now starting to flow.
The Chinese are looking hard at STOVL. India is another still operating the Harrier (Sea Harrier) and they're building their own indigenous carriers and the Russians have tried to buy a couple of Mistral Amphibious Assault Ships.
I believe the supersonic STOVL/heli/plopter combo is on everyone's mind, that countries are just watching to see what the -B will be like for us and then decide if they (allies) want to buy them or start building up their own equivalent packages.
For a smaller country a big deck amphib with a few 1.5 Mach STOVLs on board is likely 'good enough' and certainly cheaper than a supercarrier and her squadrons.
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Typically 6, although the "Harrier Carriers" during OIF had almost two squadrons' worth from what I understand. During OT-1 last month F-35Bs experimented with more than 6 on the Wasp and a hard number hasn't been nailed down yet.
We've had this "footprint" discussion before about the efficacy of fixed-wing tacair on MEUs. Odyssey Dawn in Libya is the classic example. Yes there were land-based F-15Es working the mission as well, but the MEU was a vital supplement to the ATO. This article is old but might explain the different level of power projection that can be used in a limited kinetic action scenario, or crisis response. http://www.defensenews.com/article/20110328/DEFFEAT04/103280304/Harrier-Ops-Making-Case-F-35B
We've had this "footprint" discussion before about the efficacy of fixed-wing tacair on MEUs. Odyssey Dawn in Libya is the classic example. Yes there were land-based F-15Es working the mission as well, but the MEU was a vital supplement to the ATO. This article is old but might explain the different level of power projection that can be used in a limited kinetic action scenario, or crisis response. http://www.defensenews.com/article/20110328/DEFFEAT04/103280304/Harrier-Ops-Making-Case-F-35B
It will seem kind of silly to have spent all that capital on our LHA/LHD fleet, then, no? I'm certainly no expert on how an ESG operates, but I would imagine that they didn't include a requirement for a TACAIR capability just cause it's cool.
The Marine Corps carrying its own tactical fixed wing is also a big selling point for domestic politics, force structure and appropriations as to differentiate itself from the Army.
The Marine Corps carrying its own tactical fixed wing is also a big selling point for domestic politics, force structure and appropriations as to differentiate itself from the Army.
Good point. That line of reasoning hasn't raised it's head in congress for a while and I sort of forgot about it. The Air Force has done a good job of keeping anything fixed wing that can shoot something from the Army for 70 odd years (not counting a handful of OV-1s). The Corps has it's history and its expeditionary capability to justify its existence to those that want to see it folded into the Army.
Hahaha