TRSA question

[Flying Low]

I remember as a student that Military were supposed to treat TRSA's like Charlie airspace. That gouge is still running around. So I have been trying to find where it states that specific information. The best I have been able to find is in 3710 that states Radar Services Shall be used. I'm guessing that at one time it was in writing in one of the earlier 3710's, but has since been removed. Anyone know where it states in writing about TRSA's or for those in advanced training (student or IP) what is being put out about TRSA's?

 

[Purdue]

I think you got it with the Radar Environment requirement.

TRSA's are optional for civilian aircraft, but military aircraft are required to participate in radar control whenever available, so as to prevent mishaps and midairs.

The reason that the gouge probably says TRSA's are to be treated as "Psuedo Charlies" is because under the old airspace system they were Charlie airspace (or atleast, they were the same airspace as what all the Charlie used to be). But under the new FAA system, they did not have enough traffic to become Class C. But, the field the TRSA works for is simply too busy to be only a D airport... it's kind of an inbetween and a holdover from the old system.

Also, the old radar system for controlling aircraft was still in place there... so why not use it? Plus, it can handle the approaches and assist the tower at which it is based, and it technically doesn't require two way comms to enter the airspace. To Note: Although it is a holdover from the old ways, the FAA can still commission a new TRSA if it wants to (For example the Fairbanks TRSA in Alaska was commissioned in 2000)

EDIT:: Sorry, you asked for sources... Well, you named the source where it says Navy are required to operate under Radar Control if available... and as to the history of TRSA's and how they got linked as Charlie airspace, here's one of my links that discuss TRSA's history
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/student_pilot/solo/pdfs/SA02_Airspace_for_Everyone.pdf (look at the note below Fig. 6 on page 6)


Atleast, that's the info this stud learned when he was getting his Instrument Rating.

 

[Gatordev]

The reason that the gouge probably says TRSA's are to be treated as "Psuedo Charlies" is because under the old airspace system they were Charlie airspace (or atleast, they were the same airspace as what all the Charlie used to be).

Not quite. They were their own animal. You had TCAs (Class B), ARSAs (Class C), TRSAs (TRSAs), and ATAs (Class D). The second half is right on, though. Too busy to be a Class D, but not busy enough to make it mandatory. I still call the Terminal Area charts "TCA" charts just because I like to kick it old school.

Flying Low:

I'd have to dig through the FWOP, but I thought I remembered it being in there, and likewise, in the RWOP. It's a CNATRA requirement that all TRACOM aircraft will participate in a TRSA. I'll see if I can dig it up, but for now, I don't have a solid reference.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I'd have to dig through the FWOP, but I thought I remembered it being in there, and likewise, in the RWOP.

FWOP......that is a dirty four letter word.

 

[Flying Low]

My question is not so much about the TRSA itself, but where (if at all) it is stated that military aircraft must treat it as a Charlie. I have heard that it is in a CNATRA instruction and applies only to CNATRA aircraft. Other than that it is just one of those things that has been passed down over the years. It might be covered with the wording from 3710 about radar services. I'm just trying to find if it is stated elsewhere and more specifically worded for TRSA's.

Smoke

 

[insanebikerboy]

My question is not so much about the TRSA itself, but where (if at all) it is stated that military aircraft must treat it as a Charlie.

I've never heard anywhere during my stint in the pipeline that we have to treat it like a Charlie. Instead, it's that we have to participate in the TRSA, i.e., get radar following/advisories and the like.

Oh, and fwiw everything I've heard about TRSA's is "will", not "shall".

I remember reading it in the FWOP I believe, but I can't find it (yet) in the RWOP.

 

[Purdue]

My question is not so much about the TRSA itself, but where (if at all) it is stated that military aircraft must treat it as a Charlie. ... It might be covered with the wording from 3710 about radar services. I'm just trying to find if it is stated elsewhere and more specifically worded for TRSA's.

I do not know of anything that is specifically worded for TRSA's. However, if you open your 3710 to VFR FLIGHT PROCEDURES Paragraph 5.2.3:

Where available, radar advisory service shall be requested especially when VFR flight is required through high-density traffic areas.

That pretty much describes a TRSA... a high-density traffic area with a lot of VFR bubbas.

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/03000%20Naval%20Operations%20and%20Readiness/03-700%20Flight%20and%20Air%20Space%20Support%20Services/3710.7T-1.pdf

And so although it doesn't say "USE IT LIKE CHARLIE AIRSPACE"... that is by default what you will be doing if you are operating under control in a TRSA... except not everyone else will necessarily be under control... and technically, 2-way comms are not required prior to entry for a military pilot. Also, under this reading... you only need to REQUEST it, and if approach is too busy for you you could still fly through on your own (unlike a normal C-airspace)

Oh, and fwiw everything I've heard about TRSA's is "will", not "shall".

And I dont know about the FWOP... or RWOP... but at least according to my above OPNAV 3710 referance, it is indeed a SHALL

 

[Gatordev]

My question is not so much about the TRSA itself, but where (if at all) it is stated that military aircraft must treat it as a Charlie. I have heard that it is in a CNATRA instruction and applies only to CNATRA aircraft. Other than that it is just one of those things that has been passed down over the years. It might be covered with the wording from 3710 about radar services. I'm just trying to find if it is stated elsewhere and more specifically worded for TRSA's.

Smoke

I dug through an old FWOP here at home this afternoon (can't find my new one) and I didn't see it. However it's getting passed, it's getting passed to IUTs before they go flying. I'll see what I can round up tomorrow as far as a cited instruction.

 

[HH-60H]

I dug through an old FWOP here at home this afternoon (can't find my new one) and I didn't see it. However it's getting passed, it's getting passed to IUTs before they go flying. I'll see what I can round up tomorrow as far as a cited instruction.

I specifically remember this from flight school. Was it in an old 3710?

 

[Gatordev]

I specifically remember this from flight school. Was it in an old 3710?

I don't think so because I remember it being CNATRA mandated, not fleet mandated. ie, it was one of the training wheels you got to remove when you got your wings.

EDIT: Hmm, now that you mention it, maybe it did say that in 3710...

 

[KBayDog]

EDIT: Hmm, now that you mention it, maybe it did say that in 3710...

It may have at one point, but I just geeked out on a Sunday night and didn't find anything in 3710 referencing TRSAs.

 

[HH-60H]

It may have at one point, but I just geeked out on a Sunday night and didn't find anything in 3710 referencing TRSAs.

We're talkin' old school, junior.

 

[KBayDog]

We're talkin' old school, junior.

3710.7A old?

 

[Flying Low]

I do not know of anything that is specifically worded for TRSA's.

That's what I'm getting at. I know about the other parts you listed.:icon_smil I'm just trying to find where (if ever) the 3710 or a CNATRA inst specifically addressed TRSA.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Found this Powerpoint, looks like a section from an instrument ground school class... No references though, still searching.