TSA or T&A ???

[mmx1]

Well I'm turned on.

 

[A4sForever]

For all you 'smart guys' (who always seem to 'know more' than people who actually 'do' this stuff for a living) and the rest of you people who think the TSA is doing a stand-up, righteous job 'protecting' us .... riddle me this:

Why do I -- as the CAPT in uniform -- or any of my crew members, for that matter -- need the typical TSA "full body cavity search" -- IN FRONT OF THE PASSENGERS (!!!) who are boarding my flight ... ???

"Rep" to anyone who can provide a coherent rationale for that little TSA exercise ... and I'll be the judge of whether or not you're 'coherent' ... because many of you aren't in this discussion.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Why do I -- as the CAPT in uniform -- or any of my crew members, for that matter -- need the typical TSA "full body cavity search" -- IN FRONT OF THE PASSENGERS (!!!) who are boarding my flight ... ???

Because it makes the people who don't understand "cause-effect" relationships feel better?

 

[A4sForever]

Because it makes the people who don't understand "cause-effect" relationships feel better?

That could be true in Alice & Wonderland ... but I don't live there ...

 

[eas7888]

Why do I -- as the CAPT in uniform -- or any of my crew members, for that matter -- need the typical TSA "full body cavity search" -- IN FRONT OF THE PASSENGERS (!!!) who are boarding my flight ... ???

This instance comes to mind, though it was carrying cargo, and not passengers. The potential for crazy people is out there. Though I'm not trying to dissuade you from your opinion, based in real world experience, A4's...I'm just doing my best to play the Devil's advocate. (You did post the challenge, no?)

 

[Catmando]

Rhetorical question (no need to answer for any troglodytes).

If I am a female and wearing a "pad" – which I understand will show up on a backscatter scan – how would that (no pun intended) be handled? Patted down?

What if instead of cotton (or whatever is in those things), there is Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN Powder) in it? Like the underwear bomber had in his skivvies.

What if instead of wearing that feminine pad, I avoided the backscatter by carrying the pad in my carryon. Would they pat down my carry-on pads too?

Just some food for thought. And not to give the gomers any ideas.

 

[Clux4]

For all you 'smart guys' (who always seem to 'know more' than people who actually 'do' this stuff for a living) and the rest of you people who think the TSA is doing a stand-up, righteous job 'protecting' us .... riddle me this:

Why do I -- as the CAPT in uniform -- or any of my crew members, for that matter -- need the typical TSA "full body cavity search" -- IN FRONT OF THE PASSENGERS (!!!) who are boarding my flight ... ???

"Rep" to anyone who can provide a coherent rationale for that little TSA exercise ... and I'll be the judge of whether or not you're 'coherent' ... because many of you aren't in this discussion.

I will give you a AN answer. It really does not make sense to the average guy but we also don't know what analysis TSA guys have done. This could very well be a preemptive measure. We ask that TSA be a step ahead of the enemy, this could be an example of measures they have implemented. Since the military today is probably infiltrated by Maj Hasan alike,who is to say the Airline industry is not also infiltrated with folks planning to high-jack while actually wearing the uniform. If the other guy pulls a gun and takes the flight station hostage, how should we respond? Remember that the doors are now shot theses days, so no one know what goes on up front and no one will know until it is almost too late. Think about a flight leaving from the DC area. A rag-head taking over on the climbout over the monument only leaves few seconds of reactionary time before it is all over. These days, you can't rule anyone out. It is unfortunate but that is just the reality of the times we live in.

 

[phrogdriver]

Why indeed?

You could have 5 dudes on board, each armed with pistols, nunchucks, Chinese throwing stars, chainsaws, and an acetylene torch and you would be hard pressed to take over the plane.

As soon as you tried you'd have your asses kicked by the rest of the passengers, many of which would be armed themselves.

Would people die? Sure. That's a bad thing, but it's hardly unique to a passenger airplane.

If AQ is looking to kill people (and they obviously are), there are much simpler ways.

You do have a point. Armed passengers might actually prevent terrororist attacks. On the other hand, have you seen what assholes people become when they step aboard a commercial flight? Flight attendants would be getting capped in the head left and right for hitting someone's elbow with the beverage cart and such!

 

[insanebikerboy]

I will give you a AN answer. It really does not make sense to the average guy but we also don't know what analysis TSA guys have done. This could very well be a preemptive measure. We ask that TSA be a step ahead of the enemy, this could be an example of measures they have implemented. Since the military today is probably infiltrated by Maj Hasan alike,who is to say the Airline industry is not also infiltrated with folks planning to high-jack while actually wearing the uniform. If the other guy pulls a gun and takes the flight station hostage, how should we respond? Remember that the doors are now shot theses days, so no one know what goes on up front and no one will know until it is almost too late. Think about a flight leaving from the DC area. A rag-head taking over on the climbout over the monument only leaves few seconds of reactionary time before it is all over. These days, you can't rule anyone out. It is unfortunate but that is just the reality of the times we live in.

Soooo, riddle me this then. We have armed pilots on board, the FFDO program. Who's to say that the Haji haven't infiltrated that and possible more?

Bottom line, doing these invasive, in depth searches on the pilots is pointless and borders on absurdity. It doesn't even have to be a gun, a pilot with a grudge or a point to prove could get the aircraft upside down and in unrecoverable out of controlled flight in about a second or two, and even Chuck Norris isn't fast enough to stop that.

It's a dog and pony show, plain and simple. The TSA may slow 'em down, but it's the passengers and the aircrew on the plane that actually does the stopping.

 

[Ducky]

These days, you can't rule anyone out. It is unfortunate but that is just the reality of the times we live in.

Give me a current intel brief and travel patterns of individuals and I could definitely rule people out. Then again the more "progressive and enlightened" would have me on the front page of the NYT being branded as a bigoted racist. Hint: it won't be the soldier returning home with a prosthetic leg, but I bet he gets the full TSA hand job. That's the reality of the times.

 

[Pugs]

S It doesn't even have to be a gun, a pilot with a grudge or a point to prove could get the aircraft upside down and in unrecoverable out of controlled flight in about a second or two, and even Chuck Norris isn't fast enough to stop that. .

Agreed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990 - well, except about the Chuck Norris part.

 

[HercDriver]

Yeah, turns out the backscatter machines aren't so good at detecting guns if carried next to the body.

Figure 18 shows how a metal object can only be seen if they are silhouetted against of the parts of the body. On an operational scan, the woman's (Susan Hallowell, Director of the Transportation Security Administration's research lab) hands would be up and the gun would be invisible.
[pic deleted]
The bottom line is they can't detect anything that is correctly hidden.

Invisible? I read the link you provided differently:

Separately, note that the heavy object on her left hip (a handgun) is only noticeable because her arm allows for a shadow of part of it. Arms raised, as they would have been in normal use, this object would be hard to notice.

 

[A4sForever]

This instance comes to mind...

Nice try, but wrong answer ...

If THAT incident were the yardstick by which we measure flight-crew 'security viability' ... then YOU WOULD ALL BE GETTING THE PAT-DOWN AND ANAL CAVITY EXAM on the ramp prior to manning up your mount that was paid for by the U.S. taxpayer ...

 

[A4sForever]

I will give you a AN answer. It really does not make sense to the average guy but we also don't know what analysis TSA guys have done. This could very well be a preemptive measure.....

It's NOT 'preemptive' ... it's reactionary, which is ALWAYS the government's default position.

I know what analysis the TSA has done for pilots AND the FFDO candidates and I fought long & hard against some of the more egregious and nonsensical 'analysis' the FEDs proposed. We won some, we lost some in the bureaucratic morass that IS the TSA and the FAA ...

When I got hired by my first airline ... I was quite surprised at the level and depth of the background/psychological screenings we experienced. As I went on in my airline career, I can state w/out hesitation or equivocation that the 'screening' we received (ESPECIALLY as new-hire candidates) was equal to or GREATER than anything I experienced in the service of UNCLE up to & including a TS clearance.

After 9/11 ... the drill began again. Repetitive and a duplication of effort ... but that's what the FEDs do when they are trying to plug holes in the dike.

Security screening?? In uniform?? IN FRONT OF THE FUCKING PASSENGERS THAT THE COMPANY AND THE FEDs HAVE ENTRUSTED TO ME & MY CREW FOR SAFE-KEEPING ???

I think not ... as I don't need a pair of nail-clippers to kill everyone.

I've got the 'keys to the car' ...

 

[Angels]

On a lighter note...

Got this today...