Unbelievable Zimbabwe

[MasterBates]

I gotta run to work so no time for a huge ass argument, but a lot of these places were in more or less constant tribal warfare prior to whites getting there.

Africa outside the areas of current Arab influence would still be Medieval without the colonization from Europe and India.

 

[A4sForever]

That is a blanket statement. A lot of those countries got their independence between the 1940's and 1960's. Yes, we are light years ahead of them but.....

A blanket statement?? And what is your contribution?? High level discourse??

At least I put forth something to back my thoughts. Why don't you put up something instead of a glib, meaningless, zero-sum statement that says nothing and ends in "but" .... and then the rest is silence?? :sleep_125

 

[eddie]

I gotta run to work so no time for a huge ass argument, but a lot of these places were in more or less constant tribal warfare prior to whites getting there.

Africa outside the areas of current Arab influence would still be Medieval without the colonization from Europe and India.

So is that Manifest Destiny or the White Man's Burden?

 

[Clux4]

A blanket statement?? And what is your contribution?? High level discourse??

At least I put forth something to back my thoughts. Why don't you put up something instead of a glib, meaningless, zero-sum statement that says nothing and ends in "but" .... and then the rest is silence?? :sleep_125

I don't think you have made any high level discourse either. You have singled out a few countries with HIV/AID and unfortunate racial tensions and have surmised Africa to be a basket case. That is zero-sum to me. A few of the West African countries like Ghana are doing fine. I do not expect progress to be in leaps and bounds when you compare them to the US. What is your yardstick for Africa?

It is just like someone looking at our progress as a nation from 1776 to 1830 and coming up with a forecast of how the next 200 years was going to be.

 

[wink]

It is just like someone looking at our progress as a nation from 1776 to 1830 and coming up with a forecast of how the next 200 years was going to be.

The infant democracy in the US didn't have near the problems many of the post colonial African countries have. Some African counties have as much natural wealth as the US and having gained independence in the 20th century had the example of the US and other countries to look to. Of course, they also had the United Nations. Hmm, me thinks there was a fly in the ointment.

For a fun exercise, consider how post French, Dutch and other European colonies throughout the world have faired compared to former British colonies.

 

[Clux4]

The infant democracy in the US didn't have near the problems many of the post colonial African countries have. Some African counties have as much natural wealth as the US and having gained independence in the 20th century had the example of the US and other countries to look to. Of course, they also had the United Nations. Hmm, me thinks there was a fly in the ointment.

For a fun exercise, consider how post French, Dutch and other European colonies throughout the world have faired compared to former British colonies.

Tribal issues among many other things makes it impossible to compare any post colonial African country to the US. Because a new pilot watched all the older pilots around him land a plane does not mean he can immediately land a plane as graceful as they do. It definitely takes lots of practice. Africa just has to learn through growing pains. They have to find their identity.

 

[FlyinRock]

It was outstanding in 1974 and so were the Rhodesians no matter what their "skin" ... and Salisbury was a great "liberty" town.

EVERYONE ... black or white was better off then .. no matter what the political system or anyone's personal view of it.

Believe it.

***********************************************
A4's
I lived there in the early 70's during UDI. I quite agree with you that it was beautiful and a high standard of living for all its citizens. Those who fall back on the flawed info regarding "white Rule" simply don't know what they are talking about. In fact, at that time there was more racial discrimination in the US of A and thats a fact.
Spent a lot of time in southern Africa in the 70's and was in many of the countries on a regular basis flying helicopters. My opinion isn't from a casual visit, or what the news media tells us, or the distorted history books. If you are to believe them, the history books won't even talk about many of the major events in world history unless its to emphasize a liberal point of view.
One of my favorite incidents to relate was a european camera crew in Pretoria So Africa who filmed a number of people taking noontime naps on the park grass. They captioned it as people who had been slaughtered by the oppressive white regime. You may recall it from that era?
Nearly as comical were the tourists who asked if lions roam the streets of Johanessburg and if people still live in huts and how did they keep the lions out. I always thought Jo'burg reminded me of San Francisco.
I get regular updates from around the continent by people who are living/working there and not some warped media accounting.
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[Clux4]

.

 

[A4sForever]

I don't think you have made any high level discourse either. You have singled out a few countries...

I don't really give a fuck what you think. In the good sense of the word. I was answering Flash.

What's YOUR beef??? Or are you just lookin' for a fight instead of posting anything relevant??

I'm not comparing them to the U.S.

Or didn't you get that memo??

 

[FlyinRock]

The place was better off as Rhodesia.

There is no question of that. I was living there during UDI and during the transition to the Mugabe rule. When the UK/USA declared the elections that showed Muzurewa a winner as fraudulent and required new elections, I was asked to fly Muzurewa on the campaigning trail. For many reasons, I declined (the biggest one was "we'll pay you AFTER we win...") and Mugabe took over.
Anyone who wasn't there has shaky ground to make pronouncements to the contrary. That is as stupid as discussing sex as an authority without ever having participated in same .......
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[wink]

When the UK/USA declared the elections that showed Muzurewa a winner as fraudulent and required new elections, I was asked to fly Muzurewa on the campaigning trail. For many reasons, I declined (the biggest one was "we'll pay you AFTER we win...") and Mugabe took over.
Semper Fi
Rocky

So it's your fault Mugabe ascended to power and destroyed the country.

 

[wink]

Tribal issues among many other things makes it impossible to compare any post colonial African country to the US. Because a new pilot watched all the older pilots around him land a plane does not mean he can immediately land a plane as graceful as they do. It definitely takes lots of practice. Africa just has to learn through growing pains. They have to find their identity.

Tribal issues are real. We see it in the Middle east today. But it has become an excuse in Africa. Iraq is working hard to get beyond them and they have only had a few short years of democratic experience. Although not democratic, every other country in the Middle East has stable governments with functioning bureaucracies, relatively healthy citizens and stable economies. Too many African countries endure authoritarian governments, where there isn't anarchy, and don't even get a stable government or security in exchange for their freedom.

 

[eddie]

The French tried Democracy, and gave us this:

The Germans tried it to, and gave us this:

While things may have been better under "less free" and more stable forms of rule in the PI and former Rhodesia, is not their absence today the primary proof of their greatest failing: that they did not (could not?) last?

I don't think I'm completely full of shit to think that eventually things could get better by virtue of democratic rule in former colonies despite their failings now???

 

[wink]

I don't think I'm completely full of shit to think that eventually things could get better by virtue of democratic rule in former colonies despite their failings now???

If they were democratic. Zimbabwe is not a democratic country in any way. For that matter, none of the other basket cases in Africa are. Which, of course, is part of the problem. No rule of law, no free markets, no free elections. It is just thugs and thievery of their national treasures. And the UN helps perpetuate it.

 

[A4sForever]

Some of you really, really get wrapped 'round the axle whenever the possibility of the "color" of an individual is even remotely considered or tangentially mentioned ... i.e., "black" or "white" or "yellow" or "brown" or whatever COLOR you may choose to focus on ... and it's to YOUR detriment, as it is quite apparent that you place arguments, decisions, viewpoints, and values on the color of a person's skin ... and shame on you.

Soooooooooo ... to "help" you get over it ... let's say w/regards to the Africa/Rhodesia/Zimbabwe discussion that's going on in this thread -- let's just say that we're dealing w/ whether or not it was "better" 30+ years ago when the magenta-colored people controlled & ran it rather than today when the puce-colored people run it ....

There, now .... does that help some of you deal w/ the reality and the actual situation on the ground rather than dwelling on your more PC-oriented (can I even say 'orient' ?? ) hysterical, race-baiting, demagogic aspects of it ... ???

Let's hope so ...

Try to focus on what counts, now ... instead of being one of the grey faced masses. Is that a color???