US AIRWAYS Crash in the Hudson River

[bunk22]

Ditching, http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=REED

CFIT into water, http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=RECW

Once you filter out the GA and the ubiquitous Pan third world C-47s and DC-3s, you find most ditchings or water CFITs result in fatalities.

But why is that? What are the factors behind it? What was the sea state, condition of the aircraft, attitude of the aircraft on impact, airspeed, night or day, etc, etc.

Ditching, http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=REED


Link from flight tracker showing the speeds, altitudes, positions, and timing, http://www.webcitation.org/5dsK6uWg1

I'm not saying the pilot (s) is the second coming, but it's better to be lucky than good, and IMHO, ditching a commercial airliner and not having any fatalities is absolutely SH, and a testament to properly trained crews and proper decision making

Maybe I'm missing something but it seemed above you claimed the aircrew made a mistake or most likely did in the mishap we are talking about. I to would rather be lucky than good any day.

 

[Xtndr50boom]

But why is that? What are the factors behind it? What was the sea state, condition of the aircraft, attitude of the aircraft on impact, airspeed, night or day, etc, etc.

Sorry Bunk, that would take quite a bit of effort, and I'm far too lazy for that. :icon_tong

Maybe I'm missing something but it seemed above you claimed the aircrew made a mistake or most likely did in the mishap we are talking about. I to would rather be lucky than good any day.

Not at all. I definitely should've worded that better. I was trying to say that whether this crew made some major errors, minor errors, or if they did everything perfectly, the end result was an airplane in the Hudson river, with all aboard alive and well. In my book, that's incredible!

 

[Slammer2]

I dont rate a vote so I wont.

Sounds like the pilot did his job. Actually, sounds like the pilot did the hell out of his job. You can train for stuff that might happen but if its not one of those things that happens all the time its a little scarier. Sure it was "just his job", but on this random "spot check" that nature decided to give him, he handled it well. I would hope that all flight crews would take everything serious and not get complacent. I've put my life in many pilots hands over the years and I hope that they all were just as ready at every step of the way to take care of any problem that we may have had. Just as this fine crew did yesterday.

 

[Catmando]

Personally, having flown both Navy carrier aircraft and the Airbus A-320, my professional guess is that it is far more difficult landing an aircraft aboard an aircraft carrier (or maybe a helo on a small deck for that matter) at night and in heavy seas with a pitching deck and maybe with the ship previously in a turn, than it is to ditch an Airbus during the day VFR into a river. It was an excellent result of a bad situation, and thankfully saved many lives, but..........

Not to take anything away from the USAirways crew, my "heroes" (albeit unsung) are the guys who make the most difficult landings imaginable routinely, daily - or make that nightly - far away and never acknowledged, at sea, in our stead and for our defense. But that never makes the news.

Anyway, I salute all you unreported, and nonetheless 'heroic', "other guys."
(It's always nice to pick your own "heroes", isn't it? )

 

[Malo83]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e6_1232166872

 

[Pugs]

Two engines were shut down by a birdstrike in this tragedy:

http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123070056

Won't that be pretty quickly determined by review of the FDR?

This AWACS MIR was one that was shared between the USAF and USN/USMC because there were a lot of lessons to be learned by all. Despite what the article says there was aircrew error as well as significant training issues. IIRC one of the biggest lessons learned out of the Elmendorf AWACS mishap was that are times airplanes are not flyable and the best you can do is realize it and put it down pretty much straight ahead vice trying to save it. That may actually have some relevance here in the USAir mishap where you chose the lessor of two bad options, controllable in the river or a significant risk of less control into something less forgiving.

I frankly can't see anything this crew could have done better.

 

[yak52driver]

Given the history of passenger injuries and airliner breakups at impact in previous water ditchings, I think this guy did a hell of a job. Nuff said by me.

 

[Clux4]

FLYTPAY:
What are you trying to measure with this Poll?

Are you trying to find out the percentage of crews that will ditch in a similar situation or trying to find out how many would successfully pull off a ditch?

 

[insanebikerboy]

I personally feel that any other pilot would've done pretty much the same thing. That's the point of repeated training. The crew had very little options and he took the most viable one.

I also think that luck was a big part of it, would everyone be saying "hero" if the plane had sunk almost immediately and half of the pax died? Makes for an interesting comparison.

And I didnt' vote because I'm not a fan of second guessing someone else's cockpit.

 

[bunk22]

Sorry Bunk, that would take quite a bit of effort, and I'm far too lazy for that. :icon_tong

Shit dude, that means I have to do the leg work if I want the info

 

[FlyinRock]

Not bothering to plow thru all the coulda/woulda/shoulda, they had an apparent double engine failure caused by big birds, aka geese. They had no options except to land straight ahead? Fortunately they didn't go nose down into deep water. Engines out are practiced in the sims during initial and recurrent. I suspect they'll (training and standards) introduce this accident into the syllabus now. In spite of some calling this a tragedy, it was a simple accident with no fatals. The crew did as they were trained to do. However, the co-pilot giving the dumb Pax a dry shirt after the fact was indicitave of his professionalism. The captain, OTH, went back to put on his coat and cap so he could depart the A/C with his image intact, complete with paperwork.
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the news media calling the crew heroric and acting as though the PIC walks on water.
Why does the media not tell the same in depth stories about our armed forces that are actually doing heroic things in far off places?
BULLSHIT media
I'm pleased that no one got injured of course but why should that take precedence over people who are being killed and crippled in far off places to give the liberal press the opportunity to bad mouth them?
Off Rant
Rocky

 

[ccnavyman]

The press has made such a big deal about Sully yet we still have yet to hear a word from him.... my money is on the FO. I am betting that he flew that plane all the way down (with Sully's assistance) and the airline is trying to figure out how to spin all of the hoopla about Sully when they break the news to the press that "the other guy" actually was PIC. Maybe they will offer him a free career upgrade to stay quiet.

 

[A4sForever]

A4’s
I would have thought that given the relatively long amount of time that transpired between the loss of power and the ditching that even if the Captain had not been the pilot flying that leg that he would have taken over. Is it pretty common in the airline world that if something goes south that the pilot flying that leg has it until the end?
Certainly not second guessing what happened in this event, just wondering what the norm is in the industry.

Like a couple of others have said, when confronted w/ an EMERGENCY/ABNORMAL, you FLY THE PLANE !!!

Then ASSESS THE SITUATION.

Then PERFORM THE PROCEDURE.

... all the while ... you FLY THE PLANE !!!

That's usually (always these days ???) the first item on any EMERGENCY/ABNORMAL checklist, and it's a lesson learned the "hard way" over the decades in commercial aviation when guys became preoccupied with the "problem" and neglected basic airmanship/headwork with disastrous results ... it seems obvious, but much of Aviation is "lessons learned" and nothing in Aviation should be taken for granted. I've spent years -- literally -- working on/updating/re-writing/and improving (that was the hope) NORMAL checklists and EMERG/ABNORMAL procedures at more than one airline (*ouch*) ...

Sooooooo ... "flying the plane", as a first priority, will usually dictate that the pilot flying (PF) continues to "fly" while the pilot not flying (PNF) runs the emergency/checklists/radio comm ... and then follows the PNF "challenge" and PF "response" to each item on the checklist, just to make certain you're not doing it "solo" and everything is getting accomplished. Makes it "nice" to have a S/O (second officer/flight engineer) to "run" the checklist AND provide a 3rd pair of "lookout eyes", but indu$try economic$ has been leaving that valuable position on the ash heap of aviation history for the past few decades ...

Bottom line: while there's a "standard" (SOP/SOPA) way to do it; it's the CAPT's aircraft and he can assign anyone to "fly" and delegate the checklists depending upon the circumstances ... he's just got to be able to justify it if things go wrong. That's why the CAPT gets the 4 stripes and the big paycheck ...

I've never given up "control" of the airplane during an emergency/abnormal regardless of which "window seat" I had, as there was never a need/requirement to nor was it requested by any CAPT I've ever flown with ....

... Well, there WAS that one time where we lost an engine on 775,000# GW take-off -- my leg -- and I flew for 30+ minutes while we handled the shutdown, notified ATC, dumped fuel, prepped the cabin for landing, and I flew the IFR approach ... then, unannounced, on short final AFTER we broke out, with the a/c all trimmed up and ready to land on centerline/on glideslope/on speed .... the CAPT said "O.K., I'll take it now ... " --- and at @ 400' w/ no prior briefing ?!!! NOT really good headwork, but he DID always like the limelight. His first stop post-landing in complete uniform was the TV newscamera microphone ... ... oh, did I mention?? He was also a Vietnam draft-dodger AND a SCAB ... ??? But that's a story for another day ...

I've had CAPT's defacto "give" me the bird or "their" leg (out of turn) when the WX was shit at the destination as I guess at the bottom line they were not "confident" in their abilities -- and they'd "proved it" -- and it happens -- believe it --

Anyh-o-o-o-o-o-oooo .... I've had to "take" control of the aircraft on 2-3 occasions to prevent a F/O from stalling the jet ...

When giving a check-ride, I've had to "tell" a CAPT to take control to get in w/shitty WX and little remaining fuel after the 2nd missed approach by/a new F/O flying in the right seat -- oh, yeah ... the F/O was a former Marine Harrier driver ... thought you Gyrenes might "like that one" ..

... and I've had a couple of F/O's "give" me control of the aircraft during heavy WX situations as they were "new" in their seat and they did not "feel" comfortable with the conditions. They WERE "trained" for the situation (in a simulator) ... but were "green" and not as line-proficient as they'd like to be (nor confident) and they deferred to the guy who signed for the aircraft (me) ... probably good headwork on their part and shows they were "responsible" pilots and not ego-head cases.

There's more ... it seemed like I always "got" the emergency legs ... but it's time for brunch and I don't want to upset my tummy ...

 

[exhelodrvr]

There's more ... it seemed like I always "got" the emergency legs ...

I know what that's like. I seemed to always get stuck with the crappy landings!

 

[FLYTPAY]

I know what that's like. I seemed to always get stuck with the crappy landings!

Maybe you made the landings crappy? Normally if I have a crappy landing it is my fault.