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US-Libya Restore Ties

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TXHusker05

Guest
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/15/libya/index.html

Is anyone else just completely baffled by this?

Hell, 2 or 3 years ago these guys were near the top of our sh!t list and now out of thin air we restore diplomatic ties, remove all the sanctions and take them off the terrorism watch list. I know Libya has made some advances against terrorism in their country but what exactly are they doing for us?

Anything that gets the gas prices down is fine with me, $65 to fill 3/4 of my tank today.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's not out of thin air. We invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya took note and wanted to play nice. We've been working this way for a while. This is kind of a long time coming kind of thing.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Fly Navy said:
It's not out of thin air. We invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya took note and wanted to play nice. We've been working this way for a while. This is kind of a long time coming kind of thing.
Exactly. It's a good example to other "rogue" states that there is life after terrorism. Whether or not you buy the litany of grievances against the US by Arabs, being on our team definitely has its advantages. Now, if they could only get Muammar to do an AMEX commercial.

Brett
 

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
This is good news. Our foreign policy DOES work; this is an example of it working. Buuut, Libya is/was nowhere into the radical Islam as other places we'd like to influence. Muammar made the right choice, the lives of his people will significantly improve and his own status will improve, it's a win-win situation. The people of Libya still won't be free, but they'll be better off.

I'll chalk this up as a win for the USA.
 

Swmtb

Sneakin'
I recently read an article on this subject; apparently Qadafi (spelling?) is just as wary of radical islam as we are. As a result, since 9/11 Libya has been helping us out in a number of ways, although mainly in intelligence efforts. On top of this, they also agreed to give up their WMD programs, and thus are being rewarded with better relations with the US. Hopefully, this can serve as an example to others...
 
T

TXHusker05

Guest
I know that the government of Libya has been making great strides at reducing terrorism in their country as well as around the world, and I think that Qadhafi has been on our side since 9/11.... BUT to completely take it off the terrorist watch list is a little weird. It isn't like the terrorists that were there yesterday up and left today. Unless I have the wrong impression on what the terrorism watch list is meant to convey. Seems like it is meant to identify countries with potential NGO terrorist groups working within their borders and that the state supports them. We have caught the Libyan government red handed in a number of terrorist attacks since 1986. Sure they dismantled their WMD program, but that doesn't make a lick of difference. It was never Libya itself doing any harm, they were just giving money and arms to the people that would. Libya is pro-Palestine... we are pro-Israel. Libya supports at least 10 KNOWN Palestinian terrorist groups who are on the terrorist watch list. Not to mention the fact that they armed and trained President Charles Taylor in Liberia, and we all know what he did. This is the same militaristic leader (Qadhafi is a Colonel) that just 6 years ago compared America to Nazi Germany and said "Libya is a victim of American terrorism."

Now, I have felt that Qadhafi has been making progress against terrorism, going back to the announcement that they would pay the victims families from the Pan Am bombing. But we all know why he did it, the deal was:

Each victim was to receive $10 million: $4 million to be paid when UN sanctions are lifted; $4 million once US sanctions are lifted; and $2 million when the United States takes Libya off the State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism. The only reason they paid was to get off the combined sh!t list of the world basically. That was three years ago. Everyone thought we would lift sanctions then, but we didn't so obviously we were waiting for something. I'd just like to see if they pay the $6 million per family member now or if that deal slipped their mind.

You can understand my surprise on this matter, especially with the current administration. In Bush's mind, there are two groups... those that are completely with us or those that aren't. Libya is NOT completely with us. The only thing I can think of is that there is a deal we aren't being told about. I know it sounds like I don't trust my government to tell us the truth here, and believe me, that is not how I feel... I just think the facts on this one don't add up.
 

Slammer2

SNFO Advanced, VT-86 T-39G/N
Contributor
maybe we just transferred them to our minor league $hit list to make all these deals go through, and are watching them the same way we've been anyhow. Who knows what kind of secret deals and such are going on. I sure as hell dont. Looks like good news over all.
 
T

TXHusker05

Guest
Haha, demoted from the Major League Terror team all the way back down to A ball. That sounds decent. I guarantee we will have an eye on them at all times, Libya is just one of the countries you can't afford to let loose.
 

TurnandBurn55

Drinking, flying, or looking busy!!
None
TXHusker05 said:
You can understand my surprise on this matter, especially with the current administration. In Bush's mind, there are two groups... those that are completely with us or those that aren't.

This is an oversimplication. Bush and his staff have also repeatedly talked about holding up a country as an example to others-- Iraq, in the case of democracy; Lebanon in the case of self-determination. It's not unlikely that they decided to make a very public case of using Libya as an example of "you can start playing nice with us and give up on your evildoing ways, no matter who you are".
 
T

TXHusker05

Guest
TurnandBurn55 said:
It's not unlikely that they decided to make a very public case of using Libya as an example of "you can start playing nice with us and give up on your evildoing ways, no matter who you are".

Very good point. We might have just decided that Libya was the lesser of two evils and gave them the freedoms. The one good thing about Libya is that they don't do the actual terrorism.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
TXHusker05 said:
The one good thing about Libya is that they don't do the actual terrorism.

Can you qualify that statement? I do see the merits of this particular aspect of our foreign policy (restoring ties with Libya.) However, IMHO harboring terrorists or people who support terrorists (i.e. not actively discouraging terrorism thru enforcement/security) could potentially be just as bad for Uncle Sam. Libya may not have this problem as badly as they once did, but it is something to keep a close eye on.

As an aside, I really don't see this affecting our gas prices that much, so don't get your hopes up.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
TXHusker05 said:
Very good point. We might have just decided that Libya was the lesser of two evils and gave them the freedoms. The one good thing about Libya is that they don't do the actual terrorism.
We really haven't heard a peep out of Libya since the 80s and they did eventually cooperate in the whole Lockerbie thing. I'm pretty sure the policy makers are weighing many more big picture issues on making this decision.

Brett
 
T

TXHusker05

Guest
What big pictures? Other than the abundance of sweet crude in Libya, what possibly does Libya bring to the table for us? I do think that this makes a good example for the rest of the world but what else?

They won't provide troops on the ground, they don't provide any physical assistance in the War on Terror. Most people are still certain that state sponsored terrorism occurs in Libya. It isn't a government I trust. Qadhafi might not be the problem, there are still people in that government that think America is like Nazi Germany. Heck, even Qadhafi said it. We can only hope there is something under the table that we are not privy to.

Seven, I can easily qualify that statement... in the last 30 years, Libya has never been officially tied to any terrorist action. They have been accused of sponsoring a wide variety of terrorist groups but the state of Libya has never taken action against anyone (including their own terrorists).
 
T

TXHusker05

Guest
Yes I do because both governments have actively supported American involvement in the Global War on Terror. Pakistan has provided intelligence services to the Central Intelligence Agency in Afghanistan since the early 90's and they are active in the fight in Afghanistan.

Saudi Arabia has hosted American forces in both Gulf wars and have supported the US fight against terror even when their public didn't want to support us.

Look at those two......... and then look at Libya. The entire reason for taking Libya off the state sponsored terror list was for their cooperation in the war on terror, what exactly have they done?
 
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