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Usna Or Nrotc?
- Thread starter BYPASS
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Bypass,
You started the thread, and the rest of us (obviously) are either trying to help or work through the admissions process ourselves. I thought the moderator's job was to watch for flaming or personal attacks and not stifle legitimate posts by making sarcastic comments. I don't think anyone here believes USNA reads these posts, and if they did, they wouldn't know who posted what anyway. What's the point of making fun of someone trying to talk through a pretty important situation? Is that the moderator's job? Just kidding, of course :>)))
You started the thread, and the rest of us (obviously) are either trying to help or work through the admissions process ourselves. I thought the moderator's job was to watch for flaming or personal attacks and not stifle legitimate posts by making sarcastic comments. I don't think anyone here believes USNA reads these posts, and if they did, they wouldn't know who posted what anyway. What's the point of making fun of someone trying to talk through a pretty important situation? Is that the moderator's job? Just kidding, of course :>)))
Oh, for god's sake, man. Lighten up.
First, this moderator gig ain't Walter Cronkite at the Presidential debates. I didn't ask for and I don't get paid for it. I just try to impart my ever-so-small store of wisdom upon skulls full of mush. My opinions and smart-ass remarks are my own and do not represent the management.
Second, if you worry about a little ball-busting, perhaps the Air Force is more your style. I think they have some sort of regulation outlawing sarcasm, jokes, demeaning comments, and any sense of perspective by officers and SNCOs. The "left-handed Mexican" comment should have tipped you off that I'm really just telling y'all to chill-out a little. After all, I told you you'd be fine. Besides, this is something of a general purpose forum. If something is purely for one recipient, there's a PM feature.
First, this moderator gig ain't Walter Cronkite at the Presidential debates. I didn't ask for and I don't get paid for it. I just try to impart my ever-so-small store of wisdom upon skulls full of mush. My opinions and smart-ass remarks are my own and do not represent the management.
Second, if you worry about a little ball-busting, perhaps the Air Force is more your style. I think they have some sort of regulation outlawing sarcasm, jokes, demeaning comments, and any sense of perspective by officers and SNCOs. The "left-handed Mexican" comment should have tipped you off that I'm really just telling y'all to chill-out a little. After all, I told you you'd be fine. Besides, this is something of a general purpose forum. If something is purely for one recipient, there's a PM feature.
Phrogdriver,
Like I said, I think a moderator ought to watch over the thread for flames and such, not make "smart-ass remarks" that might belittle someone who looks up to them. It seems like you're the one who can't take a little dig, so you throw in a whine about the low pay and how you don't need the gig. The only one who needs to lighten up is you. And when you get a comment back you don't like...you use the Air Force put down? So let's agree to disagree on the moderator's role and leave it at that. And I'm a NavyFan because the Navy pilots and USNA grads we know have gone out of their way to be positive mentors to my son. They keep their ball-busting to themselves--when they all know it's coming, it keeps things even.
Like I said, I think a moderator ought to watch over the thread for flames and such, not make "smart-ass remarks" that might belittle someone who looks up to them. It seems like you're the one who can't take a little dig, so you throw in a whine about the low pay and how you don't need the gig. The only one who needs to lighten up is you. And when you get a comment back you don't like...you use the Air Force put down? So let's agree to disagree on the moderator's role and leave it at that. And I'm a NavyFan because the Navy pilots and USNA grads we know have gone out of their way to be positive mentors to my son. They keep their ball-busting to themselves--when they all know it's coming, it keeps things even.
kdillard21
Registered User
the only people who say that ROTC is better and rag on the academy are the ones who didn't get the chance to go there. it sucks but you will be glad you did it and have the TOOLS to become a better officer, (not saying that all grads are instantly better people, there are bad apples that made it through). if you get the chance, your stupid to throw it away so that you can "drink and get hot girls" at a normal school. Plenty of time for that after you graduate, actually you will find time somehow to even do it at the academy, and it will actually be more fun because you probably shouldn't be doing it.
NavyFan...I apologize if my first response rubbed the wrong way. Sometimes sarcasm is funnier in one's head than on the screen. I will say that you need a thick skin and a sense of perspective in naval air. Even Marine grunts tell pilots that we treat each other like &*(*@. They just don't get it.
KD21...I beat the horse into glue on the ROTC v. USNA topic in this thread:
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3353
To summarize it, I've spent 9 years as an officer in the Corps, and haven't found a quality difference between Academy, ROTC, and OCS grads. If you want to go to an academy and take advantage of that opportunity, you have my blessing. However, don't think that it will make you a better officer than your compatriots in other programs. It gives you certain learning opportunities the other programs don't. However, the others also offer pluses that the academy doesn't. Don't discount the touchy-feely aspects of civilian colleges. The military isn't all parades, salutes, and PT--and those aren't the hardest things to learn, anyway.
I don't crap on the academies--I acknowledge that the mids work very hard. However, when I say that ROTC makes an equal product, don't tell me my motives.
KD21...I beat the horse into glue on the ROTC v. USNA topic in this thread:
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3353
To summarize it, I've spent 9 years as an officer in the Corps, and haven't found a quality difference between Academy, ROTC, and OCS grads. If you want to go to an academy and take advantage of that opportunity, you have my blessing. However, don't think that it will make you a better officer than your compatriots in other programs. It gives you certain learning opportunities the other programs don't. However, the others also offer pluses that the academy doesn't. Don't discount the touchy-feely aspects of civilian colleges. The military isn't all parades, salutes, and PT--and those aren't the hardest things to learn, anyway.
I don't crap on the academies--I acknowledge that the mids work very hard. However, when I say that ROTC makes an equal product, don't tell me my motives.
snizo
Supply Officer
kdillard,
Different motives for different schools. Why do people want to go to Fla and not Mich? I'm sure there are many factors just like there are many factors influencing someone deciding between ROTC and USNA.
The point is that they both turn you in to the same rank in the end. The paths are different and (assuming you go to the academy) what appeals to you obviously does not appeal to me ... and that doesn't mean either of us is going to be a better officer.
Different motives for different schools. Why do people want to go to Fla and not Mich? I'm sure there are many factors just like there are many factors influencing someone deciding between ROTC and USNA.
The point is that they both turn you in to the same rank in the end. The paths are different and (assuming you go to the academy) what appeals to you obviously does not appeal to me ... and that doesn't mean either of us is going to be a better officer.
Phrogdriver,
Apology accepted. And thanks for seeing both sides of the issue. I agree with you that sarcasm has its place, but this thread could be renamed "the expectant father's" thread, as applicants pace the waiting room until they get the big news regarding USNA or NROTC. Are they nervous? You bet. Are they a little needy? Absolutely. Will everything work out in the long run? Sure it will, but they don't know it right now. So they trade stories, offer each other encouragement, focus in on the tiny details, and sometimes drive each other whacky. It seems to be part of the process. The big thing is--it's important enough to them that they're here, looking for whatever can help them get a leg up, or at least keep their hopes up. What works on OCS threads might be a little deflating for some on one like this.
That being said, Phrog, I admire your personal courage in serving our country, and I appreciate the time you spend on the board trying to help those that will follow you. If it weren't for heroes like you, we wouldn't have the freedom to shoot the sh*# on a forum like this. In fact, if it weren't for people like you, we wouldn't have sh*#.
Apology accepted. And thanks for seeing both sides of the issue. I agree with you that sarcasm has its place, but this thread could be renamed "the expectant father's" thread, as applicants pace the waiting room until they get the big news regarding USNA or NROTC. Are they nervous? You bet. Are they a little needy? Absolutely. Will everything work out in the long run? Sure it will, but they don't know it right now. So they trade stories, offer each other encouragement, focus in on the tiny details, and sometimes drive each other whacky. It seems to be part of the process. The big thing is--it's important enough to them that they're here, looking for whatever can help them get a leg up, or at least keep their hopes up. What works on OCS threads might be a little deflating for some on one like this.
That being said, Phrog, I admire your personal courage in serving our country, and I appreciate the time you spend on the board trying to help those that will follow you. If it weren't for heroes like you, we wouldn't have the freedom to shoot the sh*# on a forum like this. In fact, if it weren't for people like you, we wouldn't have sh*#.
Well said navyfan. I also appreciate all the help from Phrogdriver (and many others here), both for country and for the forum. It is difficult sometimes to express one's feelings in a way in which you hope all will understand, but it doesn't always come across as intended. In realizing this, we all need to lighten up and go with the flow. After all, we're all here to either 1)help or 2)receive help.
I'm looking forward to serving my country regardless of whether I end up at USNA or through the NROTC program. My goal is to become a Naval Officer, so the path that leads there does not make a difference to me. When I started the thread, I had questions about USNA and NROTC, but since then, I've received a lot of information from others that are either in NROTC or those that have graduated from the Academy. I have a great deal of respect for both and would be happy to have the opportunity to participate in either. I'm just still waiting to see if I even have the option of making a decision between the 2.
I'm looking forward to serving my country regardless of whether I end up at USNA or through the NROTC program. My goal is to become a Naval Officer, so the path that leads there does not make a difference to me. When I started the thread, I had questions about USNA and NROTC, but since then, I've received a lot of information from others that are either in NROTC or those that have graduated from the Academy. I have a great deal of respect for both and would be happy to have the opportunity to participate in either. I'm just still waiting to see if I even have the option of making a decision between the 2.
I will chime in once again. I also have gained a lot of positives from this trove of knowledge. Here, I have found much needed encouragement about serving in the military. Though I have always found time to give back to my local community, it never occurred to me that military service was another good way to give back to my country as a whole, and on a national scale, to boot! Between encouragement that I have received from a friend, and mindful information from experienced sailors that I have read here, I have gained confidence that I will love serving among people like you. Thanks to both, I have become aware of enlisted programs, officer programs, and different paths leading to a commission--one being the Naval Academy.
I won't bore you with details of how the USNA has affected me, but will say that my only goal right now is to graduate from the college. But first, though, I must earn an appointment, and herein is where all of the fun has been.
I won't bore you with details of how the USNA has affected me, but will say that my only goal right now is to graduate from the college. But first, though, I must earn an appointment, and herein is where all of the fun has been.
Well Phrog, I hope I did not give the impression of trying to flame ROTC units. Like I said, I think ROTC is a good program- I would agree that it should be a mandatory class for freshman and sophmores like it was in the 50s and early 60s. I have had some great leaders in my year hear at ROTC( it is Army by the way, no NROTC at my school), guys who I would follow anywhere anytime. I think some people are not fit for a Service Academy and might benefit from an ROTC stint to give themselves a gut check. All of that being said, In my opinion( which again does not count for much) a Service Academy is the way to go. I think that when some one is asking themselves what path they should follow, they want to go by the route that is going to prepare them best for the profession they want. I think the "250,000 grand shoved up yer ass one dime at a time" is a good analogy, but not a negative one. It shows that one has to be tough hombre and different type to take that, and I think that pressure cooker environment is what make a better officer. My ROTC unit is one of the better ones in the state, and even in the country, it has gotten a lot of awards and recognition etc.. No matter how good your ROTC unit is, the most that the training time will amount to is 3-4 hours a week and then some special activities every now and then. Nothing is really serious till you go to Adv. Camp ( I don't know what NROTC guys do). So in deciding, one must ask themselves what will give them the best perspective, training, and test of leadership BEFORE they pin on their gold bars. In closing, I will give who ever is deciding( already forgot) two stories. My unit has a Capt.- Led the first thunder runs through Baghdad, took heavy fire on his M1A2, carried his unit through one of the toughest fights of the war, was just awarded the Silver Star- ROTC grad
My unit also has a Major- Special Force tabbed, Psy Ops, numerous ops he cannot speak about, Hardcore hombre who I saw ruck a 100 lb ALICE without breaking a sweat for a day, all around good leader- Academy grad.
The point is that they are both excellant leaders who have taken different paths, they both have done amazing things for the country. I would choose to be in the Academy grads place. What would you choose?
My unit also has a Major- Special Force tabbed, Psy Ops, numerous ops he cannot speak about, Hardcore hombre who I saw ruck a 100 lb ALICE without breaking a sweat for a day, all around good leader- Academy grad.
The point is that they are both excellant leaders who have taken different paths, they both have done amazing things for the country. I would choose to be in the Academy grads place. What would you choose?
American_Ace
AFROTC
I don't know why anyone would choose NROTC over the USNA. I understand that ROTC kids get the whole college experience and they aren't socially distorted when they leave, but...... WHY??? I could only see someone turning down USNA for MIT or Stanford with a full ride.
Then again, I've been trying to mentally prepare myself for four years now (and I don't know if I got in.... It's driving me friggin nuts).
Then again, I've been trying to mentally prepare myself for four years now (and I don't know if I got in.... It's driving me friggin nuts).
I chose NROTC over the academy because I didn't want to live a 24-7 lifestyle. I remember when I wanted to go to the academy when i was in high school...I put the blinders on to all other sources of commissions and only focused on the academy. It was definitely a mistake to do that. When I found out about NROTC and their scholarships, I decided that the program was the right fit for me. Many in my unit originally wanted to go to the academy, but after a year or so of NROTC just about everyone says they'd never give up NROTC. Again, we chose NROTC because thats how we want to live and start our careers in the Naval Service. It's not about being second best in any regard, I think we've addressed that issue enough. So when you ask WHY someone would got to NROTC over the Academy, its because we WANT to, perhaps you dont understand that.
I can't speak fully for the other services, but the Marine Corps has everyone EXCEPT academy grads go to OCS. That's a test of leadership. After commissioning, there's TBS to pass on more. The theory that an academy offers more leadership training is valid, I just have never seen a demonstrably better result. The government gets much more bang for the buck from ROTC and OCS. I can cherry-pick great examples of officers from any commissioning source. I will say that as an IP, I see new officers fresh off the presses, and they're pretty much all the same, except for the prior enlisted, who are generally a little more squared-away.
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