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USS Guardian (MCM-5) aground on reef in Sulu Sea

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Based on my post above about Nimitz, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

But I roger up that we live in different times, since, based on "other threads and comments", there are SOOO many good guys left standing around these days...
It's still tradition, even if guys like Nimitz (or Halsey) fucked it away and survived. The exception proves the rule. You can't argue that the Navy hasn't traditionally relieved COs who ground, crash or otherwise ding their boats. Whether that tradition goes back to the early 20th century is a completely different, yet ultimately irrelevant issue.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Brett, it is highly doubtful that any COs would have been relieved 'back in my timeframe', under the circumstances you outlined in the first quote above. Your cite could be interpreted as "no culpability assigned to the CO or crew". What then would be the justification for firing the CO?

BR, I don't believe the USS Cole incident falls into the catagory cited above. There was a security breach involved.
BzB

BzB, sort of...yes there was a breach, they weren't in strict compliance with the rules, but they were cleared of any wrongdoing.

Quick version: They set their security posture IAW direction from higher, and that posture was determined to be insufficient to stop the attack (ie you executed as directed and it still didn't work).

The "breach" was that they were required to have picket boats on 15min stdby....they didn't/couldn't do that since there was nobody around to do in in Yemen, and they couldn't use their own boats, b/c they decided to go stbd side to the fueling station (boats launch on stbd side) as they were on call for contingency tasking and needed to be able to get underway quickly.
Point is, even if they had done that, it wouldn't have mattered since the suicide boat didnt' give them a 15 minute heads up and had blended into a heavily trafficked area.

So, maybe not everything right, but an investigation did clear him/them.
That said while he wasn't fired (but then he didn't really need to be with a dead ship), he was promoted to O-6 several times but kept getting punted in confirmation hearings.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
It's still tradition, even if guys like Nimitz (or Halsey) fucked it away and survived. The exception proves the rule. You can't argue that the Navy hasn't traditionally relieved COs who ground, crash or otherwise ding their boats. Whether that tradition goes back to the early 20th century is a completely different, yet ultimately irrelevant issue.
Tradition is mostly a good thing…when it harkens back to "who we are and how we got here". It can obviously be misused…in the sanctimonious name of "tradition".

In this case, I'm not yet convinced that all the facts are yet known. Fair? Or should we all just "go traditional" on this Skipper's ass? Regardless of whatever the actual investigation may yet find?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
......That said while he wasn't fired (but then he didn't really need to be with a dead ship), he was promoted to O-6 several times but kept getting punted in confirmation hearings.

He was on the O-6 list submitted to the Senate for confirmation, they don't hold confirmation hearings for the O-6 list, for several years in a row but the list was blocked from being approved by the Senate with his name on it by Senator John Warner (the older and now retired one from Virginia and not the current one). After the the CNO at the time who ensured his name was on the list every year, Admiral Vern Clark, retired CDR Lippold opted to retire as well. This was all from CDR Lippold himself, he gave a talk to my unit one day about the attack and the aftermath. It was a very informative and sobering talk and he seemed like a good man whose ship just happened to be the unlucky one, the USS The Sullivans escaped the same fate only a 10 months earlier in the same port because the attackers boat sank from being overloaded.
 

delta215

Member
8594721557_b1280b12e5_b.jpg
 

delta215

Member
Wondering the same thing. The images on TV suggest that only one side of the ship is sanded down. The bow section on the barge was pictured in the standard gray.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I believe it was "sanded down" by the large and very sharp rocks the one side was laying on. I'm amazed the hull is in as good a shape as it looks. I've seen firsthand the results of when a sailboat meets a reef (yes, I know it's a different surface material), and it's not pretty and a lot more destructive.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I believe it was "sanded down" by the large and very sharp rocks the one side was laying on. I'm amazed the hull is in as good a shape as it looks. I've seen firsthand the results of when a sailboat meets a reef (yes, I know it's a different surface material), and it's not pretty and a lot more destructive.

She wasn't laying on her side, the side facing away from the reef and towards the open water was stripped of it's fiberglass coating by the waves and generally being beat to crap.
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Look at the bottom though, it has been worn completely away from being on the reef. You can see the ribs & stringers. The pics on SIPR are clearer, but you can see it here too.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Look at the bottom though, it has been worn completely away from being on the reef. You can see the ribs & stringers. The pics on SIPR are clearer, but you can see it here too.

Sorry, due to a supply issue, I don't have my SIPR token, so I apparently don't need to get on SIPR. That's assuming NMCI hasn't locked my account...again...in a 3 month time span for no reason.
 
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