what are the hazards associated with rescue swimmer job?

[HeloBubba]

One person told me the push for automatic advancement was to negate the squadron practice of E-3 and below reporting to 1st LT for 90 days.

Not necessarily to negate it, but to keep the AW's/Aircrewmen from having to do it. In my day it was the CO's that said the AW's/Aircrewmen were exempt from 1st LT duty. The idea was we were more effective to the squadron's mission while in the airplane than cleaning shitters.

So taking into account the discussion in the "Jets vs. Helos" thread (http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140890&page=4) about the differences between the LAMPS MK I and LAMPS MK III communities, I am not surprised the AW shops needed something to keep the new kids where they belonged, in the airplane.

 

[robav8r]

Not necessarily to negate it, but to keep the AW's/Aircrewmen from having to do it. In my day it was the CO's that said the AW's/Aircrewmen were exempt from 1st LT duty. The idea was we were more effective to the squadron's mission while in the airplane than cleaning shitters.

So taking into account the discussion in the "Jets vs. Helos" thread (http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140890&page=4) about the differences between the LAMPS MK I and LAMPS MK III communities, I am not surprised the AW shops needed something to keep the new kids where they belonged, in the airplane.

This has always been, and always will be a contentious issue. AW's (especially in the LAMPS community - IMO) have always had a tremendous amount of responsibility and professional requirements thrust upon them. Some will argue that AW's are no better or no different than any other enlisted member of a squadron. Absolutely not true - again, IMO. We ask LAMPS AW's to be professional, competent plane captains, Helicopter Rescue Swimmers, and last but certainly not least, acoustic and non-acoustic sensor operators. We also ask these aviation professionals to conduct themselves on par with the pilots and officers in their squadron. Is it right to advance them to E-4 and keep them out of the 90 day 1st Lt shit jobs? Absofuckinglutely (once again, IMO - from someone who has been there and done that).

 

[bb1125]

We ask LAMPS AW's to be professional, competent plane captains,

I'm sorry, but I just can't stop laughing at that one. Maybe back in your day, but the last time I saw an AW do a daily (back around 2001), I might as well have been doing it because he kept asking us what the card was telling him to look at. Oh, and this was supposedly the superstar AW2 that could do anything. My last squadron even took away the requirement for AW's to be PC's a few years back, so that's a moot point now.

 

[MasterBates]

I have seen AWs do DTAs as recently as 2007.

Common, no. But great to have if you break down somewhere.

 

[bb1125]

I have seen AWs do DTAs as recently as 2007.

Common, no. But great to have if you break down somewhere.

I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, just the experience from my squadron. BTW, whenever we did cross country's, a maintainer PC flew in the back. About the only time I saw them do it was on the boat. Now, I did have a couple on det with me over the years that would stop by the shop after a flight to help, but it's been a while.

 

[Gatordev]

I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, just the experience from my squadron. BTW, whenever we did cross country's, a maintainer PC flew in the back. About the only time I saw them do it was on the boat. Now, I did have a couple on det with me over the years that would stop by the shop after a flight to help, but it's been a while.

Then your experience differs from others. It also helps to have leadership "include" them. I agree w/ Robav8r's message, however, when said AWs claim they need all this time to study their ACTC stuff, and then my chief or I walk into the office and they're playing PS2, I have no regrets when my chief tells them to get their butts down to help w/ the aircraft.

 

[HeloBubba]

I'm sorry, but I just can't stop laughing at that one. Maybe back in your day, but the last time I saw an AW do a daily (back around 2001), I might as well have been doing it because he kept asking us what the card was telling him to look at. Oh, and this was supposedly the superstar AW2 that could do anything.

How the hell did he pass a Plane Captain board not knowing what the daily deck was referring to?

My last squadron even took away the requirement for AW's to be PC's a few years back, so that's a moot point now.

That just seems like the wrong answer to the problem. That's like letting my kids off the hook for chores because they do them wrong. Instead of me as a parent making the hard choice to bug 'em until they do it right.

 

[docpup]

Definatley an HS / HSL mindset. In the good old HC turned HSC, we still have AW's by rate, Mech/AVI/Metalsmith by trade as the CD/CDQAR's in the shop. Hell, an AW was elected as PC of the year.

While at 3 I took a bird from SD to Pensacola for the flyin. We took a PC with us...again, this was the new 60S days and the requirement crew chief PC wasn't on the books yet.

Now in the defense of HS/HSL, they had a lot more toys to work with in the back and "Tactical" knowledge to deal with. It a work in progress in my community. I can say that while with the Air Ambulance detachment we had legacy HS AW's and HC force converted AW's. The mindset is totally different as far as maintenance is concerned from the PC to the Maintenance Control level. Follow the same books, but go about it totally different.

 

[Stearmann4]

Ah, HC-5, 46s' and Guam. My fondest Navy memories are on that island. Of course that was 1990, so it's probably not as fun anymore.

 

[Gatordev]

That just seems like the wrong answer to the problem. That's like letting my kids off the hook for chores because they do them wrong. Instead of me as a parent making the hard choice to bug 'em until they do it right.

Part of the relaxing of AWs (HSL ones, anyway) being PCs was due to the formal tactics training curriculum. Because there was much more material to go through (all of the computer courseware they now have), the wanted the AWs to dedicate more time to studying than worrying about the PC qual. But as I mentioned, that's great if someone is managing their time for them, but when you let some AWs off on their own to "study," they find more enjoyable ways to spend the time. It's human nature, I know, but it seemed to me to be more prevalent among the AWs than w/ the officers who had to do their own upgrades along w/ their ground jobs.