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What Are You Listening To?

PNW Flyer said:
Please provide an example of a historian "revising" history because of what they believe politically.
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Easy, Time survey of Presidential greatness finds Trump last. I don't like Trump. But there's no reason he should be in last place behind guys who presided over the nation during a civil war, or the great depression. That my friend is revising history, due to politics.

I could also cite the entire Afrocentrism movement.
 
Playawon said:
View attachment 19308


Pretty good article describing multiple studies on this subject.
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OK the incredible irony of pointing to an NRO article on political bias aside--I guess I might be missing something here; where in that article does it show that any academic departments' politics are influencing their scholarship? The authors clearly are drawing that conclusion, but the studies they point to are quantitative surveys of voter records, not a critical review of the scholarship. Unconvincing.
 
Playawon said:
Easy, Time survey of Presidential greatness finds Trump last. I don't like Trump. But there's no reason he should be in last place behind guys who presided over the nation during a civil war, or the great depression. That my friend is revising history, due to politics.

I could also cite the entire Afrocentrism movement.
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An opinion survey of professors is not scholarly work, nor is it historical revisionism.

What about the afrocentrism movement do you find revisionist, specifically?
 
PNW Flyer said:
OK the incredible irony of pointing to an NRO article on political bias aside--I guess I might be missing something here; where in that article does it show that any academic departments' politics are influencing their scholarship? The authors clearly are drawing that conclusion, but the studies they point to are quantitative surveys of voter records, not a critical review of the scholarship. Unconvincing.
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I did see the irony on posting an NRO article. Anyway, I'm not asserting that many left wing professors are busy trying to indoctrinate students in their thinking. I was replying to your "takeover" comment. Purely related to numbers, liberal arts academia has been "taken over" by left wingers.

PNW Flyer said:
An opinion survey of professors is not scholarly work, nor is it historical revisionism.

What about the afrocentrism movement do you find revisionist, specifically?
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If these people honestly believe that Trump is worst president we've ever had before he's finished his term. Then what do you think thy are willing to publish? I'd suggest that an individual has to jump through some hoops to ever suggest that Trump is the worst ever. I'd argue that some had to personally revise their own opinions of the historical record for that to be possible.

In regards to the Afro-centrism movement, there is a huge issue with prescribing cultural and scientific achievements as originating on the African continent that simply did not. All in an effort to make young African Americans feel good about there ancestors. It's sad because Africa already has a very rich history. Giving attention to the myths that Afrocentrism pushes suggest that the real history of Africa isn't good enough.
 
wink said:
Sure there are choices. Professors of all stripes must publish. But only a very small fraction get assigned as texts. In public schools it is generally what CA or TX approved for their kids. It is a racket.
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You're conflating two different things, public primary schools might be inclined to go with what CA and TX choose for their own school systems but colleges, to include public ones, have much more leeway. Often it is the professor that chooses what is studied, as it was at my school for more advanced and specialized courses.

wink said:
They are almost all progressive and left of center.
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Really? Have you done a survey of college textbooks lately? Taught college? Or just heard a new report or two?

wink said:
College is slightly different because a prof can assign most whatever he wants. Given the vast majority of liberal arts profs are left of center you will get that selection in a text....But if the prof professes and promotes a certain view point, especially by way of denigrating other view points, you ain't going to get many students to search out other sources to support a point of view contrary to the prof when he just told everyone anyone holding that view was a moran, immoral, intolerant and more. They just take the easy way out. Use the prof's resources, mimic his world view, get a good grade and get out. Better than working hard independently, get hammered on the grade and possibly publicly humiliated.
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What kind of college did you go to?

We had a few of professors even at my school who were a bit left, though plenty that were a bit right too, but I can't think of a single one that graded on some sort of supposed political prejudices. Are there some out there that do that? Almost certainly, but the vast majority probably grade as mine did, based on the work of the student and not the politics. That included the unreformed hippie who liked to needle folks about the same-sex relationships among Greek hoplites in her history of warfare class and the biology professor who covered his walls in pictures of aborted fetuses.

But hey, if they are too lazy or lack the intellectual curiosity to actually go out and learn some more on a subject then they deserve whatever ignorance they posses beyond what they learn from a professor.

wink said:
You went to college years ago. Your experiences may have been different. Mine certainly were. I have just had three kids complete a total of 15 years at university undergrad and graduate school. It is different out there Flash. Sadly so.
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Maybe they should have gone to different schools or expanded their horizons beyond what they learned there.

Overall I find it amusing that somehow colleges and universities are apparently training grounds of radical leftism that is infecting our youth, turning them into Che-loving Marxists who want to overthrow our government via MSNBC and community organization. It is about as absurd as folks who think that the youth who enlist in the military or join the police are being infected by their fascist and racist leaders to hate the left and impose a fascist rule here at home and overseas.
 
For the record I'm midway through my last year at the liberal indoctrination camp in a liberal arts major (history, the one true discipline) at a major public university and it's been...decidedly balanced.

I've had more professors who fit the stereotype of the eccentric academic than any of the supposed raging liberals you hear about. My professors are way more likely to excitedly show us slideshows of shit (literal and figurative) they dug up in Jordan and then angrily yell about the inaccuracies in 300 than they are to try to crush anyone for disagreeing with their politics. I've had European expats, cashmere sweater wearers, baldheaded biker boot wearing Army vets and a general parade of well meaning nutty old dudes for professors. My university has a retired three star as an adjunct in the department who is pretty well liked according to people who have taken his classes (I never got to take his class personally). Many of my professors were pretty liberal, many weren't, it wasn't that big a deal.

I've also had one professor who was a super angry, raging liberal (everybody's got to have one in life I guess) albeit in a class that was probably to be expected in and I don't think she was successfully indoctrinating anyone, she was mean enough that it would astound me if anyone who didn't already agree with her embraced her politics (or anything else about her), we did the work, got the grade and got the hell out. Honestly, a lot of people probably move right after taking her classes.

If this was the liberal conspiracy to indoctrinate America's youth it's either not going particularly well or is extraordinary subtle.

(I am willing to concede there are probably schools where the majority of the faculty are overwhelmingly liberal and push the agenda hard or whatever but to be honest those schools' reputations tend to precede them and the people showing for freshman orientation are probably already pretty far left of center).
 
Judge Q said:
For the record I'm midway through my last year at the liberal indoctrination camp in a liberal arts major (history, the one true discipline) at a major public university and it's been...decidedly balanced.

I've had more professors who fit the stereotype of the eccentric academic than any of the supposed raging liberals you hear about. My professors are way more likely to excitedly show us slideshows of shit (literal and figurative) they dug up in Jordan and then angrily yell about the inaccuracies in 300 than they are to try to crush anyone for disagreeing with their politics. I've had European expats, cashmere sweater wearers, baldheaded biker boot wearing Army vets and a general parade of well meaning nutty old dudes for professors. My university has a retired three star as an adjunct in the department who is pretty well liked according to people who have taken his classes (I never got to take his class personally). Many of my professors were pretty liberal, many weren't, it wasn't that big a deal.

I've also had one professor who was a super angry, raging liberal (everybody's got to have one in life I guess) albeit in a class that was probably to be expected in and I don't think she was successfully indoctrinating anyone, she was mean enough that it would astound me if any who didn't already agree with her embraced her politics (or anything else about her), we did the work, got the grade and got the hell out. Honestly, a lot of people probably move right after taking her classes.

If this was the liberal conspiracy to indoctrinate America's youth it's either not going particularly well or is extraordinary subtle.

(I am willing to concede there are probably schools where the majority of the faculty are overwhelmingly liberal and push the agenda hard or whatever but to be honest those schools' reputations tend to precede them and the people showing for freshman orientation are probably already pretty far left of center).
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Your experience, I believe is the one most college students have.
 
Judge Q said:
"Enjoy being pure, we'll just wait for you to die so we can decide whether or not you mattered." -Lowly History Crowd
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Thankfully I was able to check my spelling before I passed on to my reward. Surely history will judge the Preview button kindest of all.
 
And if I had known you were waiting for me to die, I’d have ordered my coffee from an English major.
 
Playawon said:
View attachment 19308


Pretty good article describing multiple studies on this subject.
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Oh, stats. So easy to f**k away.
Is that column chart corrected for the D:R ratio of people in the general population binned by those same ages? Doesn't look like it based on the caption.
The chart should show a difference (∆) between the sample (professors) and the population, if it were to have any meaning or bearing on the argument. Since it doesn't, I'm not bothering to read the article, even though I wouldn't be surprised if there is a notable left-lean among professors.
 
IKE said:
Oh, stats. So easy to f**k away.
Is that column chart corrected for the D:R ratio of people in the general population binned by those same ages? Doesn't look like it based on the caption.
The chart should show a difference (∆) between the sample (professors) and the population, if it were to have any meaning or bearing on the argument. Since it doesn't, I'm not bothering to read the article, even though I wouldn't be surprised if there is a notable left-lean among professors.
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Correct that chart if you will, but there is no way it will come close to reversing the basic take away. Democrats far out number Republicans in the ranks of college professors, and at a rate exceeding the population. You can reasonably debate all day what effect that has on instruction. But it is just nibbling around the edges of a fact no one disputes to correct that data for the general population. Look at the ratios, recall what you know about political affiliations in the general public (it is all over the TV and papers during any election), and just be reasonable. You still don't have to read the article, I haven't.
 
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