What is it like to be an NFO?

[bert]

NFO's are marginally cheaper to train and should be cheaper to advance through their fleet quals and keep current. Having said that, "cheaper" really is a relative term. In the long term the personnel costs become the dominant driver. The Brits have done it with no issues, but I would think Navy politics would really drive this. The NFO community would obviously want more opportunities I would think, and the HSL/HSM manning model has a lot of problems, but there isn't any inherent support in the community for it (and I don't see where their SWO allies would care).

Personally, I don't see anybody who matters being willing to spend money now in order to gain those relatively small long term gains, especially when you factor in that large chunks of the Romeo mission set can be performed as well or better by a UAS (or whatever abbreviation I'm supposed to be using for those).

 

[HAL Pilot]

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, there were talks about putting NFOs both in the left seat of helos and as the 3rd pilot in P-3s as a money saving measure. Then, NFOs cost about 50% of what it cost to train (to wings) a pilot.

For helos, NFOs in the left seat meant a 50% reduction in pilot training, quals and currency - big $$$$$. It was thought that an NFO who was 80% tactics and 20% co-pilot would significantly increase tactical effectiveness. On the flip side, it was felt a 2nd pilot greatly enhanced safety during things like plane guard/SAR and Vertreps. Finally it was decided that helo had a greater chance of an inflight emergency/crashing then fixed-wing. The increase in tactical effectiveness and cost savings of flying single piloted with a NFO were not worth the decrease in safety.

For P-3s, a NFO trained as a "cruise co-pilot" (i.e non-flying pilot duties) would decrease pilot training requirements and costs by 33%. It was going to be the next step after TACCO. There wasn't really a safety issue as if things really went to shit, there were two pilots available to put in the seats. Further, all take offs and landings would have both pilots in the seat. The pilots argued flying below 1000 feet should require 2 pilots but the NFOs countered with S-3s safely flying low with 1 pilot/1 NFO. Since pilots outnumbered NFOs and held 3 of the 4 wing commander spots as well as both 1 star commands, it was an idea that was died on the vine. It seems to me that with the problems of keeping enough P-3s flying and budget, this ideas should be reexamined. The is a lot of potential saving both to airframe life and money here.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Okay, I have a stupid FO question:

How much stick time do Flight Officers get (both in actual Navy planes and recreationally)? After doing a lot of reading around these parts, I was a little disappointed to discover that a lot of NFO jobs are not in the cockpit. However, it seemed in a few threads that occasionally NFOs get an opportunity to take the controls for a few minutes and they obviously get to fly in IFS (maybe some in API too?)

Last, it sounds like a lot of NFOs throw down some money to rent planes and fly for fun....how common is this/how often do you actually have time to fly outside of work?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Other than IFS - plan on zero.

 

[bluesig1]

In primary during contacts the SNFO sits up front of the T-6, and can take controls whenever desired, but also instructor dependent.

 

[OnTopTime]

However, it seemed in a few threads that occasionally NFOs get an opportunity to take the controls for a few minutes and they obviously get to fly in IFS (maybe some in API too?)

Huh?? Maybe this happens when SNFOs are daydreaming in Aero class...

 

[MGoBrew11]

Thanks for the responses.

So most of you guys don't rent planes to fly outside of work? If I am not mistaken HalPilot, you were (or are) an airline pilot. Did you not start qualifying for that until after a career in the Navy?

 

[CUPike11]

Some of us do rent planes or fly them as our actual jobs after the military. While you're active duty (speaking strictly from CNATRA land), the problem isn't renting planes or the desire to do it or not do it.

The problem is time and priorities. Finishing my PPL and getting other civilian ratings isn't a high priority right now......earning my wings are.

 

[cfam]

^^What he said..I was able to get a couple of PPL lessons in while I was waiting to class up for primary and advanced, and I'm flying on the weekends now (in the RAG). You really don't have that much time though, so you do it when you can. The Navy always takes priority.

 

[CommodoreMid]

There's a reason they call it SCREW time...

 

[HAL Pilot]

Thanks for the responses.

So most of you guys don't rent planes to fly outside of work? If I am not mistaken HalPilot, you were (or are) an airline pilot. Did you not start qualifying for that until after a career in the Navy?

I got all my tickets through commercial MEL at the Navy Flying Clubs on my own dime and off duty. It had nothing to do with the Navy or Navy flying. As a NFO, you are NOT a pilot. Pilots do the stick thing, not NFOs.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Thanks for the responses all, they have been helpful. I know the job takes first priority and that you are not a pilot. I was just curious.

 

[johnnyfive]

I want to be an NFO so bad.

 

[HueyHornet75]

NFO...no longer flying object = soon to be extinct?

 

[Pugs]

NFO...no longer flying object = soon to be extinct?

Sigh - Another hater of the smarter and better looking half of the Naval Air team.