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Where are the T-34Cs going?
- Thread starter Jublov
- Start date
Yep, we've got 949. It looks much better without the orange and white paint job.
She was never a TRACOM bird. She was blue and white when I flew her. I didn't just fly TRACOM T-34s.
She was actually the better bird between the two. I'm jealous.
Before Lancair started building their IVP, individual users were using the Walter (before it was officially GE). I've been curious if it was worth the reduced cost. Of course, it's all academic since I couldn't actually see myself dropping $800K+ (plus gas) on a plane...no matter how awesome it would be.
T-34C VT-6 1987
We had 2 x T-34B's at NAS Norfolk flying club - only time I ever flew one. I don't think there is a heck of a lot of parts commonality.
Chuck, I missed this earlier... Is your CPH including gas? Even if you only flew 50 hours a year, that's $25K, which (assuming you're talking a dry CPH) seems on a much higher order of magnitude than I've read about before.
I'm using a similar single engine turboprop - which is using $5 per gallon fuel - granted this is a more complex airplane , pressurized, etc. The power plant, airframe and mechanicals are not drastically different. So maybe if operated experimental you could sneak away with $400 per hr...
http://www.caijets.com/tbm/cost.htm
http://www.caijets.com/tbm/cost.htm
Fuel is a bit lower here right now, so that can help as well, but obviously that's a moving target. This was very helpful to see, even if the numbers might be slightly different. Out of curiosity, any idea what the one hour of maintenance is for every flight hour? I'm trying to figure out what needs that much attention that also would need an A&P. Which is to say I don't know enough to know the answer, not that I'm arguing it.
As I said earlier, it's all mental masturbation anyway, but it's still interesting to daydream about.
As I said earlier, it's all mental masturbation anyway, but it's still interesting to daydream about.
It's a big talking point on the GA side. The other issue is states like CA who are hitting GA with pollution (real or imagined) taxes. Auto gas may not be an option, depending on what you're trying to get out of your motor. STC'ed engines often can't produce the power that a 100LL engine can, so if you're wanting more GW capability (and/or faster or higher cruise), auto gas isn't the best option.
Diesel seems like a good answer, and really, diesel just means JET A, which for now is on average cheaper than 100LL (again, depending on location, as I mentioned earlier in a thread). It just seems like manufacturers are (understandably) slow at getting the STC for their products.
It's been interesting to see the change in 100LL the last year or so. With all of the excess oil that's been popping up, the short-to-mid term synopsis is life will continue to be good. It's crazy to be paying for 100LL now that's the same price or cheaper than the 87 octane I was paying for at the NEX in CA 18 months ago.
He kept talking about how it wasn't going to be economically viable to keep refining Avgas in the long term, since I am not involved in general aviation it was a bit of a surprising argument to hear. If true it certainly doesn't bode well for general aviation either, especially since it has been on a long decline here for years.
Yup. Among the many various "fronts" GA has been battling, with the help of AOPA, I really respect the work that Harrison Ford has done to get the message to those that can help. It's also tough to argue with a dude who played 2 pivotal characters in my childhood story-time who also has a passion for what I do as an adult (and before).
Seriously dude, you probably need to start talking less and listening more. I get it, you love aviation and you've done some flying before the military, but just because you can roll a T-6 simulator and make a landing doesn't mean you have a full grasp of the world around you.
A few of us in my reserve unit have talked about this several times, where several of us could see being able to fly recreationally 40 or more years ago but not today mainly due to cost. Where it used to be an upper-middle class hobby in the past it is firmly in upper class territory nowadays and once the baby boomers stop flying, the last generation it was still affordable to 'the masses', I think general aviation will be in big trouble.
Real problem, so they say, is the lead content. True, they do have to refine it separately and have a separate supply and accountability system, but that is doable and the cost simply passed on. But the lead issue is being driven by EPA and will make 100LL go away eventually.
Fixed wing general aviation is costly, but does not have to be prohibitively so. I am sure a lot of you guys spend more on your guns, motorcycles or sports cars then I do on my plane. You can buy simple two place airplanes, even super fun classics for anywhere from 15K-30K. Simple four place planes maybe 25k-45K. A small two place plane will burn maybe 5-7 gph at $4.50/gal. That is a shit load of fun for less than $30 per hour in gas. Sure you have annual inspections and insurance. My insurance is about what I pay for my car. An annual for a single engine fixed gear plane will run $600-$1000 per year depending where you live and your relationship with your A&P/IA. If happen to have a small classic airplane that qualifies in the Light Sport category ( ie Luscombe 8A, Taylorcraft, Cessna 120/140, Eurcoupe) then you go to a short FAA approved course, get a "repairman certificate" and you are authorized to do all you own repairs and inspections, effectively eliminating all maintenance labor cost. Then you have the amateur built market. Build your own from a kit and pay for it over time as you acquire the various phased kits. It is like buying the plane on installments but no interest. If you are very careful, you can buy a completed used amateur built plane. You can do all your own maintenance on experimental registered amateur built planes. And you can always go into a partnership. My fist plane, in 1982, cost $7500. That was $3800 each for my squadronmate partner and me.
Fixed wing general aviation is costly, but does not have to be prohibitively so. I am sure a lot of you guys spend more on your guns, motorcycles or sports cars then I do on my plane. You can buy simple two place airplanes, even super fun classics for anywhere from 15K-30K. Simple four place planes maybe 25k-45K. A small two place plane will burn maybe 5-7 gph at $4.50/gal. That is a shit load of fun for less than $30 per hour in gas. Sure you have annual inspections and insurance. My insurance is about what I pay for my car. An annual for a single engine fixed gear plane will run $600-$1000 per year depending where you live and your relationship with your A&P/IA. If happen to have a small classic airplane that qualifies in the Light Sport category ( ie Luscombe 8A, Taylorcraft, Cessna 120/140, Eurcoupe) then you go to a short FAA approved course, get a "repairman certificate" and you are authorized to do all you own repairs and inspections, effectively eliminating all maintenance labor cost. Then you have the amateur built market. Build your own from a kit and pay for it over time as you acquire the various phased kits. It is like buying the plane on installments but no interest. If you are very careful, you can buy a completed used amateur built plane. You can do all your own maintenance on experimental registered amateur built planes. And you can always go into a partnership. My fist plane, in 1982, cost $7500. That was $3800 each for my squadronmate partner and me.
Well I don't have two of those three and the other I inherited. Even with the 'cheaper' options you pointed out I still couldn't afford it, especially when I live in a high cost area (have to with my career) and have a family to fund. The simple fact is that general aviation is still a lot more expensive than it was in its heyday. Sure, there are ways to do it but for me and many of my contemporaries it just isn't worth the pain nowadays as evidenced by the decline in general aviation the past few decades.