Where old planes go when they "die"

[HAL Pilot]

You know...someone mentioned the MI-6 earlier...I flew on an MI-8 last fall in Croatia...glad I made it on the deck safely...

I did a UN mission in the Western Sahara desert in around 1994 or so. We had a bunch of Russians flying MI-8s for logisitcs and aerial recon. I had a great time flying around in them, never saw any in need of major maintenance or seriously broken, and thought they were a great bird. Than I found out they could not decouple the rotor if the engines quit. In other words - they could not autorotate. If the engines quit, you died.

We had a ARMY SF LTC as our American contengient commander. I told him that as the senior aviator present, I recommended that US military and civilian personnel no longer be allowed to fly in the MI-8s. He wanted a second opinion so I called the Navy Safety Center. Within the hour, they sent out a op immediate message to the DOD office in charge of US personnel on UN missions stating that USN & USMC were forbidden to fly in MI-8s and recommended the same for all DOD. That message followed within a couple of hours. Never saw anything go so fast in my military career.

So within 3 days the Russian helos were gone, Evergreen came in with Bell 212s, and the remaining Russians hated me for losing their friends jobs.....but all the western military guys (UK, Canadians, Irish, Auzzies,Germans, etc.) decided I had probably saved some lives and continually threw alcohol at me.....

 

[skidkid]

We fought MI-8s and MI-24s on Det, flown by contractors (probably the bset maintained examples around). I didnt know they couldnt autorotate. They are both pretty beefy helos.

 

[Pags]

I've always kind of wondered how long it took the 50lb brains to figure out that a freewheeling unit was a nice thing to have. It's unbelievable that the Russians never figured that one out. Or if they did, they never retrofitted it into the Mi-8s.

 

[skidkid]

Autoraotation good (well usually-story for another time maybe)

 

[ChuckMK23]

So within 3 days the Russian helos were gone, Evergreen came in with Bell 212s, and the remaining Russians hated me for losing their friends jobs.....but all the western military guys (UK, Canadians, Irish, Auzzies,Germans, etc.) decided I had probably saved some lives and continually threw alcohol at me.....

CIA and SOCOM assets are routinely trucked about on Mi-8 and Mi-17's in Afghanistan.

As for the Mil series helo lacking the ability to autorotate in the event of an engine failure(s) I think that is urban legand, rather than truth. Both aircraft autorotate successfully in the evnt of a dual engine failure. Rotor and Wing Magazine did an eval flight of the Mi-17 at the Paris Air Show a few years back - the Russian pilot did not speak english, the Rotor and Wing reporter (I believe it was Ron Bower) did not speak Russian - the Russian pilot in an unannounced move retarded both power levers, and brought the Mi-17 to a full auto touchdown from 1000 feet.

Now, back to the Safety Center grounding USN/USMC folks from completing the mission on contract eastern european Mi-8's - I know it is well intenioned, but it smacks of inter service parochialism - as if the Naval Aviation Safety Center knows anything. As if they know anything better than Army or USAF...

The Naval Aviation Safety program is the biggest inhibitor to a Naval Aviation culture of mission accomplishment and combat effectiveness - in my opinion anyways. Just an opinion mind you.

 

[wink]

The Naval Aviation Safety program is the biggest inhibitor to a Naval Aviation culture of mission accomplishment and combat effectiveness - in my opinion anyways. Just an opinion mind you.

I love the aircraft recce thread we have going here. Don't even remember the original subject. But I have to comment here. The Naval Safety Center is not supposed to promote mission and or combat effectiveness in any way other then keeping aircraft and aviators airborne and alive so they may complete their assigned missions. It is someone elses job to temper the Safety Center's safety centric interests with the overall mission of the Navy. I have always viewed the Navy Safety Center as something like the NTSB. NTSB recomendations are made without regard to the cost of implementation to the industry, airline, rail, whatever, or the many unintented consequences, but solely within the interest of safety. Many NTSB reccomendations are never acted on by the relavent transportation agency because they are not practical or provide the maximum safety improvement per dollar spent. Navy Safety Center is no different. Other commands must temper the Safety Center with operational necessity. If that dosen't happen it isn't the Safety Center's fault. The squadron safety officer can not unilaterally stop an evolution. He may only advise the CO that it is not safe. The Safety Center's role with the Navy is much the same.

 

[Gatordev]

If only everyone was imbued with that way of thinking, wink. Then maybe I wouldn't have had to worry about my feet spontaneously combusting because I was wearing the "wrong" kind of boot.

 

[HAL Pilot]

CIA and SOCOM assets are routinely trucked about on Mi-8 and Mi-17's in Afghanistan.

As for the Mil series helo lacking the ability to autorotate in the event of an engine failure(s) I think that is urban legand, rather than truth. Both aircraft autorotate successfully in the evnt of a dual engine failure. Rotor and Wing Magazine did an eval flight of the Mi-17 at the Paris Air Show a few years back - the Russian pilot did not speak english, the Rotor and Wing reporter (I believe it was Ron Bower) did not speak Russian - the Russian pilot in an unannounced move retarded both power levers, and brought the Mi-17 to a full auto touchdown from 1000 feet.

I went back and looked at some photos and letters I wrote during my mission. The helos were MI-17s not MI-8s. My mistake. The only way I could tell from the pictures that they were 17s is because I remebered from the squadron recco days that the 8's tail rotor is on the right while the 17s is on the left. (How I remeber that useless trivia is beyond me....)

The ones we had in the UN mission could not autorotate. Maybe a modification was done latter or something for the Paris Air Show you mentioned. Maybe it was a newer vintage - I don't know. Ours couldn't do it. When I contacted the Safety Center, they already knew this fact and were very surprised we were flying in them.

I found out about this after one I was flying in started having trouble with one of it's two engines. The pilots put that sucker down so fast it would make your head spin. They were extremely relieved when we were on the ground. That's when they told me that the helo could not autorotate. They said if one engine quit, you had to get on the ground quickly becasue if the other went - you were dead. While our engine did not quit, it was eating itself and getting close. These guys spoke excellent English so there was no mistaking their words (or their fear).

As far as SOCOM (CIA is not DOD) flying in them - that's possible. I might not have been clear, but the banning of DOD personnel from flying in them was for my UN mission. At that time, that was all we were concerned about or cared about.

 

[HAL Pilot]

If only everyone was imbued with that way of thinking, wink. Then maybe I wouldn't have had to worry about my feet spontaneously combusting because I was wearing the "wrong" kind of boot.

One of the funniest thing I ever saw was a F-4 RIO jump out of his cockpit with his boot on fire.

I was on the Midway for a few days in the early 1980s. There was a 5MC for an emergency pull forward - an F-4 was coming in with a cockpit fire. The flight deck crew scrambled, the F-4 trapped, the fire crew climbed on the aircraft and the RIO climbed out for his boot to be sprayed off.

Seems F-4 had a CB panel by the RIOs foot. One of the CBs arc and caught all the accumulated grease, oil, jet fuel, etc that was soaked into the boot on fire.

 

[Super18Ordie]

fine then


it's sort of a USN a/c

Actually that plane from the movie hot shots is a Folland Fo-145 Gnats, a British fighter/trainer used by the RAF's Red Arrows aerobatics team until 1979

 

[Prashant Patel]

I stopped at Davis-Monthan overnight while making my PCS move from UCLA to Pensacola, and here's some pics I took without looking too suspicious:

I wouldn't mind flying some of those 5000-odd aircraft they have over there...

 

[nfo2b]

I stopped at Davis-Monthan overnight while making my PCS move from UCLA to Pensacola, and here's some pics I took without looking too suspicious:

I wouldn't mind flying some of those 5000-odd aircraft they have over there...

Links broken.

 

[mmx1]

Thread resurrection - retired my CH-53D today (along with two others)

I got the tour of the place too; will have more pics uploaded later.

 

[Gatordev]

One less, Red Lion, I guess.

I forgot this thread existed. Here was my ride in October. The #1 engine wouldn't start, the APU had a bad ESU and wouldn't start, and the cabin door wouldn't either close all the way or open all the way (as you can see). But she got us there...eventually.

Crap, I can't seem to upload files now... Weird.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I heard there was some pre-coordination required for the tour. True? I'm dropping off a C-12 next week and want to see what else is out there.

I took the tour 10 or so years ago on the spur of the moment and it was no problem. That was before 9/11, though.