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Why a steering wheel on carriers?
- Thread starter Broadsword2004
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A4sForever said:
HAL Pilot said:
Now we're getting into the stuff urban legends are made of.......perfect loops and skeletal remains.....Hmmmmmm....I'ver never heard of either of these in 19 years of Navy flying.
But.....I did see an F-14 from VF-211 have full uncommanded aft stick off the cat due to binding flight controls. Off cat 4, crossed the bow nose high...and slowly climbed to about 3k' in full A/B flaps down, gear up...at which point it hammer head stalled and the RIO punched out both pilot and himself. Jet hit about 1000' abeam the starboard side of the boat.
B.I.O.
r/
G
Okay - it wasn't a perfect loop. The aircraft climb almost straight up (with the nose oscillating) for about 2000 feet, came over the top and pointed straight down like a spear. The pilot punched out at the top. He was a prespective XO going throught the F/A-18 Rag after a career in A-7s. After the investigation he was allowed to continue, successfully CQ'd and went on to the squadron. This caused quite a flap with the FAGs as the younger guys thought he should be booted. They claimed if they had made the same mistake they would have been gone instantly.Schnuggapup said:
Just because you did not hear of the incident doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was around the mid-1992 time frame during CQs on the TR.
Schnuggapup said:
Well, what can I say....it happened. I guess the implication is that I would be loose and easy and heresay and false with the memory of two comrades-in-arms??? Comrades that I knew -- personally?? I guess -- if you didn't hear about it -- it's "the stuff urban legends are made of"? I believe that line originated in "The Maltese Falcon", and it really was: "the stuff that dreams are made of....", Sweetheart (?)
I am new to this forum and want to be polite, keep my nose clean, etc., etc., but that kind of response from someone who, by his own admission, has "never heard of either of these" kind of ticks me off. It sure didn't take long, did it? Do a little research on VA-52 and then perhaps you will have "heard of it".... in the meantime, give your fellow Aviators the benefit of the doubt instead of "questioning" what someone who has BTDT says......just a friendly suggestion.
I think mine would also be the response of most Aviators that I know or ever have known........The two gentlemen that I am referring to deserve better than an uninformed "never heard of" (them) comment from a fellow Aviator. Wouldn't you agree, Schnuggapup ??
I probably have several more that you've never heard of......almost all involving Comrades-in-Arms.
Aloha, A4sForever
Wow...how did this all start?? Steering wheels on CVNs??? Damn shoes. now you got the aviators all riled up and kickin' the hornets nest at each other.
The good old days...cold cats, dark nights, and pitching decks....guess we've all been there at one point or another...seen my wingmen blow up in flight, too.
I was an FRS instructor at VF-101 Det Miraramar flying the D in 92 and used to read all the MIRs for all communities on the message board. So you can understand my not remembering that particular mishap...it's just a loop I would have remembered. I remember the PIO mishaps (and near mishaps Hazreps) which precipitated the towel rack cat shots in hornets. Could be a similar mishap.
As you spend some time here on this forum (which I hope you will), you'll see that most questioning is not an attack on you personally, but just fact finding...all too often the facts are NQR when it is a "I knew a guy who knew this pilot that..." type of story.
Keep on postin'
Cheers,
G
The good old days...cold cats, dark nights, and pitching decks....guess we've all been there at one point or another...seen my wingmen blow up in flight, too.
I was an FRS instructor at VF-101 Det Miraramar flying the D in 92 and used to read all the MIRs for all communities on the message board. So you can understand my not remembering that particular mishap...it's just a loop I would have remembered. I remember the PIO mishaps (and near mishaps Hazreps) which precipitated the towel rack cat shots in hornets. Could be a similar mishap.
As you spend some time here on this forum (which I hope you will), you'll see that most questioning is not an attack on you personally, but just fact finding...all too often the facts are NQR when it is a "I knew a guy who knew this pilot that..." type of story.
Keep on postin'
Cheers,
G
Okay, I might have got a little too defensive.Schnuggapup said:
That it was a PIO accident is why all the young FAGs were fired up. They believed that it should never had happened and said they would have no respect for an XO/CO that made such a well known blunder. The powers-that-be said that it was understandable that a guy with 700+ A-7 cats would bury the stick in his gut (metaphorically since it's a side stick) on his first F/A-18 shot. They agreed old habits are hard to break but said this should serve as his permenant reminder. I understand he went on and had a successful command tour (according to Snort Snodgrass in the Oceana O'club 3 or 4 years latter - Snort was the TR Gator at the time of the accident and knew the pilot).
I agree - damn shoes, they cause all sorts of problems. Or we can blame Broadsword since he started this thread...
HAL Pilot: F.Y.I....Ship ran over them
Run over by the FDR @ 1970:
CREWNAMES: KILLED: (3) LCDR Roger Blaine Thrasher, Pilot. LT Thomas L. Walls, Nav. AO1 Floyd Russ Bond, Pax. Note: was on his first A-3 flight returning to Rota Spain to reenlist.
SURVIVED: (1) AMS2 Sam "Rosey" Rozier P/C. Note: Continued his naval career retiring as an E-9.
On 02/26/1970 EA-3B was launching from the deck of the USS Roosevelt CVA-42. The catapult system malfunctioned in mid-stroke, resulting in the Skywarrior "dribbling" off the bow. It was later discovered that the 3rd class that fired the cat got a faulty cat shot indication which he pushed the retract button in trying to stop the launch. This in turn sheared a shear pin, causing the aircraft to go off the cat at the speed which they had reached prior to the 3rd class hitting the retract button. The cat felt normal and strong. A faulty wire was determined to have caused the light to flash. Note: This crash resulted in all cat shot operators to raise their hands once the cat is shot.
Once the EA-3B departed, the pilot was pulling the yoke up as far as possible trying to gain altitude, he turned and asked AMS2 Rozier what was going on? And he yelled cold cat. The aircraft went about 300 yards in front of the bow of the ship and began to cart wheel and break up, the nose of the aircraft broke off. AMS2 Rozier went under the water in his seat, he thought still in the cockpit, after 2 minutes of going down he disconnected his seat harness and shot up fast to the surface. Once on the surface he saw the aircraft and 3 helmets floating, at that time the USS Roosevelt ran over him and the A-3. AMS2 Rozier was swept down the side of the carrier getting cut up from the big barnacles breaking both of his legs, nose and gashing his head deep. Upon approaching the fan tail he was worried about the props and thought it was all over but a wake swept him out. He was later picked up by the USS Adams and treated and flown to Naples for hospital care. "Its amazing he survived".
Lithograph of EA-3B BUNO 144851 R-2
Run over by the FDR @ 1970:
CREWNAMES: KILLED: (3) LCDR Roger Blaine Thrasher, Pilot. LT Thomas L. Walls, Nav. AO1 Floyd Russ Bond, Pax. Note: was on his first A-3 flight returning to Rota Spain to reenlist.
SURVIVED: (1) AMS2 Sam "Rosey" Rozier P/C. Note: Continued his naval career retiring as an E-9.
On 02/26/1970 EA-3B was launching from the deck of the USS Roosevelt CVA-42. The catapult system malfunctioned in mid-stroke, resulting in the Skywarrior "dribbling" off the bow. It was later discovered that the 3rd class that fired the cat got a faulty cat shot indication which he pushed the retract button in trying to stop the launch. This in turn sheared a shear pin, causing the aircraft to go off the cat at the speed which they had reached prior to the 3rd class hitting the retract button. The cat felt normal and strong. A faulty wire was determined to have caused the light to flash. Note: This crash resulted in all cat shot operators to raise their hands once the cat is shot.
Once the EA-3B departed, the pilot was pulling the yoke up as far as possible trying to gain altitude, he turned and asked AMS2 Rozier what was going on? And he yelled cold cat. The aircraft went about 300 yards in front of the bow of the ship and began to cart wheel and break up, the nose of the aircraft broke off. AMS2 Rozier went under the water in his seat, he thought still in the cockpit, after 2 minutes of going down he disconnected his seat harness and shot up fast to the surface. Once on the surface he saw the aircraft and 3 helmets floating, at that time the USS Roosevelt ran over him and the A-3. AMS2 Rozier was swept down the side of the carrier getting cut up from the big barnacles breaking both of his legs, nose and gashing his head deep. Upon approaching the fan tail he was worried about the props and thought it was all over but a wake swept him out. He was later picked up by the USS Adams and treated and flown to Naples for hospital care. "Its amazing he survived".
Lithograph of EA-3B BUNO 144851 R-2
Glad to see you guys kiss and make up. Sure hate seeing a cat fight among aviators. Yea, blame the shoes, the source of all aviators' problems. Riiiiggggggghhhhhhht.
I could not agree more with your call on "blame"......and kiss and make up ??? Aviators always kiss and make up.Steve Wilkins said:
What goes on cruise, stays on cruise, however.
HAL Pilot: F.Y.I....Ship ran over them
A4sForever - In most case, I believe a good bridge team should have been able to react fast enough to prevent running over them.
Steve - F'ck A the black shoes are to blame, that's just a fact of life
Have a Merry Christmas everyone!
A4sForever - In most case, I believe a good bridge team should have been able to react fast enough to prevent running over them.
Steve - F'ck A the black shoes are to blame, that's just a fact of life
Have a Merry Christmas everyone!
EngineGirl
Sleepy Head
HAL Pilot- I LOVE Hawaiin airlines!! They were soooo nice when I flew with them. I was leaving home for the first time and was homesick and they were so nice and helpful and sweet. Plus they gave us this awesome ice cream cookie with our meal!!! That rocked!!!
USMMAMid03
Registered User
My two cents...
The size of a ships wheel does not matter any more. Back in the OG days of sailing the helm was directly connected to the rudder post by lines so the bigger wheel was needed for mechanical advantage. Now the helm is connected electrically to the steering gear above the rudder or in case of a carrier multiple steering gears.
Many factors go into a ships turn radius. Ships speed, accelerating, decelerating, draft, depth of water, size of rudder, type of rudder, placement of rudder in relation to the screws. The ship will have a smaller turn radius at slower speed and if in shallow water...I think depth of water is taken into account only when depth is two times the draft?...
I have been on ships with both a wheel and a "joystick". Both control how much rudder your inputing but the rudder will only move as fast as the steering gear will allow it to. All most all large ships will also have other joysticks that control the bow and sometimes stern thrusters (fore and aft propellers aligned with the keel that control lateral movement at slow speeds).
Hope that answers your original question. I cant believe I remember all that shat. Later
The size of a ships wheel does not matter any more. Back in the OG days of sailing the helm was directly connected to the rudder post by lines so the bigger wheel was needed for mechanical advantage. Now the helm is connected electrically to the steering gear above the rudder or in case of a carrier multiple steering gears.
Many factors go into a ships turn radius. Ships speed, accelerating, decelerating, draft, depth of water, size of rudder, type of rudder, placement of rudder in relation to the screws. The ship will have a smaller turn radius at slower speed and if in shallow water...I think depth of water is taken into account only when depth is two times the draft?...
I have been on ships with both a wheel and a "joystick". Both control how much rudder your inputing but the rudder will only move as fast as the steering gear will allow it to. All most all large ships will also have other joysticks that control the bow and sometimes stern thrusters (fore and aft propellers aligned with the keel that control lateral movement at slow speeds).
Hope that answers your original question. I cant believe I remember all that shat. Later
Merchant Marine...the only ship in the Navy that has bow thrusters is the FFG, which is also the only ship that has a single screw. Carriers and every other US Navy ship have no bow thrusters and multiple screws.
nfo2b
Well, not anymore... :(
Not really. As has already been stated a few times here, the wheel at the helm simply turns an electric servo-transmitter, not mechanical linkages or gearboxes--no torque required. I'm guessing that the wheel size for carriers was chosen to reflect the massiveness of the ship that it's turning. Like someone else here said, you can literally spin the wheel as fast as you want, but the rudders will only turn as fast as the hydraulic actuators (HUGE) in the a$$ end of the ship will turn them.Whatsisname said:
True, if you're only doing less than about 11 knots, which is usually way lower than what you're doing during flight ops. Above this, and the limiting factors are the applied torques on the propulsion shafts, and the astern bowl pressures of the propulsion turbines (this is my ball of wax--ex-CVN Nuke MM). These parameters have limits to prevent damage to the turbines/propulsion shafts. To avoid exceeding these limits, astern steam must be applied judiciously, even in the case of an ABE (All Back Emergency).HAL Pilot said:
Just my $.02.
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