Why are so few professionally recommended to OCS? IWC.

[bubblehead]

Why


Ask yourself why Harvard has a 5.4% selection/acceptance rate and you will have your answer.

Uhm, please do not compare the Navy to Harvard. Please. The job - Intel officer - is not hard and no specialized skills or degrees are required to succeed: anyone can do the job. The "selection" process would have you think otherwise.

The reason why the selection rate for the Navy is so low is because of the number of available billets as compared to the mountain of applicants. Once the "interest" in the Navy drops, the standards will change and the number of people selected will increase.

If people actually knew what Intel officers did in the Navy there would be a dramatic decrease in the number of applicants. At least on the Reserve side, I remember the look of disappointment on many faces (mostly off the street Ensigns with no military experience or background) of those who were truly disappointed in the reality. One of them was a Human Terrain contractor who spoke a couple of middle eastern languages.

 

[bubblehead]

Could someone explain what the obsession with INTEL is?

Perception.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Perception.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Uhm, please do not compare the Navy to Harvard.

You’re completely over-analyzing this. Why does Harvard have so low selection rates? So many people apply because of the “prestige” for so few spots. They feel a Harvard education will set them up for success for the future after their experience. The Intel Community is just like this. Many people apply but either don’t know or don’t want to experience other opportunities (think: other navy careers) because of the “prestige”.

 

[BackOrdered]

Its all a numbers game. Opportunities vs. Where the Navy sees manning will right size itself after x years from now. If the Navy needed a ton of fresh OCS Intel Ensigns to make their manning make sense, they would have a higher Intel selection rate like every other community. Its no secret.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

some people just love doing powerpoint

People probably think Intel is like Hollywood spy movies. For a few people, on a few days out of their career, it is. Whether Intel work is “cool”/“interesting” or not is subjective. But then again, 99.9% of people in the world will never experience it firsthand.

Perception.

Very interesting, but makes a lot of sense.

Yes, ship life does bear down on people. And SWOs get a lot of ship life. (Also, constant work trips can wear you down, too, even when they're to cool European destinations.) Intel offers, generally speaking, get more shore duty, which equals a better quality of life. People are probably attracted to intel precisely because of the low selection rates. It's the same reason tons of people apply to Harvard - it seems prestigious because not many people get in, even if a majority of the people who apply would succeed if selected. I'm an intel officer who enjoys intel, but I've also known plenty of people who've come in from other communities and not liked it at all, so the amazingness of intel really depends on who you're talking to.

Thank you for your response (and not including a picture of Nemo ). It all makes sense given everything else I've been told. I should have noted earlier the SWOs I know mostly commissioned through ROTC. They were in it more for the government paying off their college, and less so for the military itself. Perspective and mindset of course make a world of difference in everything.

If people actually knew what Intel officers did in the Navy there would be a dramatic decrease in the number of applicants. At least on the Reserve side, I remember the look of disappointment on many faces (mostly off the street Ensigns with no military experience or background) of those who were truly disappointed in the reality. One of them was a Human Terrain contractor who spoke a couple of middle eastern languages.

That's an excellent point, and I'm always sad to hear about that. I can't imagine it being uncommon either. Lots of people think doing software at big tech corporations is the definition of paradise because "Wow Google/Apple/Intel/whoever is so cool!". Yeah the pay is pretty good and the work is usually challenging, but you also have to enjoy absurdly long hours doing mind-draining work, dealing with big egos and dictators, and minejumping to avoid layoffs.

This is why I ask questions (even some dumb ones) here and IRL. Because far too many people join the military having no idea what they're doing or what they're getting into. Maybe it's the engineering brainwashing, but in my field, if you do something without having a solid plan and design mapped out before starting, you'll be reprimanded or punished.

 

[BlueDacnis]

For what it’s worth, I applied for Intel over other communities for two reasons.

First because my older brother is enlisted intel (CTR1) and he was a resource I could go to to actually ask questions about what the intel community is like, what the job might entail, what kind of billets are typical, likelihood of sea vs shore duty, advancement culture / timeline / likelihood, nature of work, civilian opportunities post-service, etc. It’s hard to find that sort of exhaustive information online. Actually, it’s hard to find any insightful information online about what to expect, other than some very general and outdated information, so intel was the one community I could know the most about. I liked how intel sounded like a relatively nice sort of community, whereas SWO has a bit of a bad reputation for being kinda cutthroat.

Second, because while I will never mind being deployed or away from home (I’m married to an enlisted soldier, so we’re not strangers to being separated), I liked the fact that intel can see more shore duty than say SWO. My brother, as a CTR1, hasn’t been on a ship since the 2000s. I definitely won’t mind being on a ship, but I liked the idea of shore duty.

Most people I talk to who want intel don’t have the Hollywood idea about it. We all joke in private messages about how, if accepted, we’d all end up being PowerPoint ninjas. That’s all we could ever find out about intel designators. No one ever says (at least as far as I’ve ever experienced, with all the dozens of fellow hopefuls I’ve talked to across this forum and Reddit as well), that they can’t wait to be spying on the Russians and pulling James Bond type shit. Trust me. None of us think Intel is glamorous. Most people I have talked to like intel because of 1.) availability / higher likelihood of shore duty 2.) the technology-heavy work environment, which millennials are statistically VERY attracted to 3.) the civilian jobs we’d maybe, possibly be qualified for post-service 4.) the “desk job” quality to intel, which many millennials prefer after having grown up with MacBooks and smart phones. Some people do think the whole Hollywood thing is reality, though, but they’re generally set straight rather quickly.

That’s my theories and experience at least. We may be wrong in our ideas, but from the POV of the street looking in at the fleet, that’s what seems so appealing.

 

[Brett327]

technology-heavy work environment

If by that you mean a slightly antiquated Dell laptop, then yeah, the job is tech heavy.

 

[BlueDacnis]

If by that you mean a slightly antiquated Dell laptop, then yeah, the job is tech heavy.

Haha, it’s hard to know these things from the outside looking in, so thanks for the slap of reality. I especially imagined IP as being tech heavy, given the computer sciencey nature of the work (at least what the enlisted service members do next to IPs, an IT told me IPs can’t even touch equipment).

 

[exNavyOffRec]

For what it’s worth, I applied for Intel over other communities for two reasons.

First because my older brother is enlisted intel (CTR1) and he was a resource I could go to to actually ask questions about what the intel community is like, what the job might entail, what kind of billets are typical, likelihood of sea vs shore duty, advancement culture / timeline / likelihood, nature of work, civilian opportunities post-service, etc. It’s hard to find that sort of exhaustive information online. Actually, it’s hard to find any insightful information online about what to expect, other than some very general and outdated information, so intel was the one community I could know the most about. I liked how intel sounded like a relatively nice sort of community, whereas SWO has a bit of a bad reputation for being kinda cutthroat.

Second, because while I will never mind being deployed or away from home (I’m married to an enlisted soldier, so we’re not strangers to being separated), I liked the fact that intel can see more shore duty than say SWO. My brother, as a CTR1, hasn’t been on a ship since the 2000s. I definitely won’t mind being on a ship, but I liked the idea of shore duty.

Most people I talk to who want intel don’t have the Hollywood idea about it. We all joke in private messages about how, if accepted, we’d all end up being PowerPoint ninjas. That’s all we could ever find out about intel designators. No one ever says (at least as far as I’ve ever experienced, with all the dozens of fellow hopefuls I’ve talked to across this forum and Reddit as well), that they can’t wait to be spying on the Russians and pulling James Bond type shit. Trust me. None of us think Intel is glamorous. Most people I have talked to like intel because of 1.) availability / higher likelihood of shore duty 2.) the technology-heavy work environment, which millennials are statistically VERY attracted to 3.) the civilian jobs we’d maybe, possibly be qualified for post-service 4.) the “desk job” quality to intel, which many millennials prefer after having grown up with MacBooks and smart phones. Some people do think the whole Hollywood thing is reality, though, but they’re generally set straight rather quickly.

That’s my theories and experience at least. We may be wrong in our ideas, but from the POV of the street looking in at the fleet, that’s what seems so appealing.

Shore duty doesn't equal time at home, one of the Intel O's I knew spent time away from shore duty due to required commitments.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

The IP community takes English majors now? Everyone and their mother and most especially Program Authorization 108D state: "Major fields of study directly related to Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics as well as Information Technology (IT), Computer Science, Information Assurance, or Programming are most strongly preferred but not required." Not to mention all the essentially required infosec certifications and such.

Did they expand the selection pool to include any educational background?

 

[BlueDacnis]

The IP community takes English majors now? Everyone and their mother and most especially Program Authorization 108D state: "Major fields of study directly related to Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics as well as Information Technology (IT), Computer Science, Information Assurance, or Programming are most strongly preferred but not required." Not to mention all the essentially required infosec certifications and such.

Did they expand the selection pool to include any educational background?

Your surprise at my selection cannot possibly equal mine, lol. I didn’t even apply for IP because I believed my chances so laughably low that I didn’t even insult the NRC by putting it as a third choice. But they must have seen something in my transcript that made them believe me adequate.

 

[Jim123]

If by that you mean a slightly antiquated Dell laptop, then yeah, the job is tech heavy.

I guess this means the Panasonic Toughbooks finally cast off their mortal coils and slipped into myth and legend.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Your surprise at my selection cannot possibly equal mine, lol. I didn’t even apply for IP because I believed my chances so laughably low that I didn’t even insult the NRC by putting it as a third choice. But they must have seen something in my transcript that made them believe me adequate.

First off, I wish to congratulate you. It's absolutely awesome and a great achievement! However, I cannot hold my astonishment and confusion.

You also put down CW as your #1 pick which is closely related in terms of education and other requirements, so the same sorts of things with regards to IP apply to CW. There's very evidently something missing here. Did your OR never tell you what the minimum qualifications are for the designator?

Did your transcript include lots of computer science and/or IT-related courses? If not, I don't know what they would see in your transcript that is adequate.
Do you hold DoDD 8570-approved certifications?

The IP community, and this is coming from the OCM along with officers and recruiters, pretty much requires you to have some kind of computer/CS or IT educational background. Even other STEM fields are meh at best. Like what would a mechanical engineer be able to do with regards to computer systems, networks, and info sec?

Think about it this way: If you go and apply for an IT job or a software dev position (which is where people usually go with IT and CS degrees), they won't even interview you. Your education and experience have nothing to do with any of it. For example, if I were to apply for a civil engineering job or to the Seabees (even being a software and occasional electrical engineer), I'd get told to get my head checked as I have zero educational or work background in civil/mechanical engineering.

There has to be some very extreme circumstances going on in the IP community to basically break with policy and authorization. Getting selected for a designator you didn't apply for just adds to the funkiness. Either way, I'm extremely curious as to how this happened. Fortunately for us, we have some resident forumers from the NRC who would have an explanation. @NavyOffRec

 

[jRiot504]

If by that you mean a slightly antiquated Dell laptop, then yeah, the job is tech heavy.

I spoke with an AD CAPT in INTEL last Friday regarding the community. He said the field is trying to move more towards AI/ML though isn't really sure what/where/why/how to go about it. The Navy and US government as a whole is having trouble recruiting people who have experience with these types of technologies. One area that is going to hold not only the Navy but the government back is the bureaucratic nature of technical work, particularly in emerging fields such as AI/ML. Personnel need to be able to try ideas freely without the requiring approval of higher ups e.g., install packages from open source.

The reason I put INTEL down was highlighted this weekend in article in the WSJ - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-arms-race-in-ai-1520009261. Current tech elites in Silicon Valley don't want AI to be used for the military, but China does not hold these same values. Being able to work actively work in this field (I am aware as an O1 I won't be afforded these opportunities), for the military to me is exciting. Yes, I am aware this isn't James Bond excitement, it is desk, white-board, notebook and paper, book work - it's mental work.