Why are so few professionally recommended to OCS? IWC.

[exNavyOffRec]

The IP community takes English majors now? Everyone and their mother and most especially Program Authorization 108D state: "Major fields of study directly related to Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics as well as Information Technology (IT), Computer Science, Information Assurance, or Programming are most strongly preferred but not required." Not to mention all the essentially required infosec certifications and such.

Did they expand the selection pool to include any educational background?

Read my post(s) on this thread, it should explain it.

https://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/swo-idc-options.45090/

 

[Brett327]

Hmm. From my perspective, AI and ML are more R&D vs stuff that is done at the tactical or operational level where the vast majority of JOs will serve. I suspect that expertise will live in places like DARPA in the near term.

 

[jRiot504]

Hmm. From my perspective, AI and ML are more R&D vs stuff that is done at the tactical or operational level where the vast majority of JOs will serve. I suspect that expertise will live in places like DARPA in the near term.

If I am not picked up I have an option available to do my PhD in mathematics starting in the fall, specializing in geometric measure theory which is used in imagery analysis. My would be advisor used to work with a mathematician who co-founded a company that has a DARPA contract. They are doing imagery analysis in real-time (real-time in terms of satellite imagery) that provides forecast on crop yields. Why is this under DARPA? From my understanding if crops prices are expected to rise in the Africa this leads to unrest in the region. Typical crop forecasts are done via the USDA which are quarterly I believe (North Africa probably less frequently), so having them updated daily is far more valuable.

Having a general understanding of how the government operates I suspect these will be under R&D for quite sometime. Though working in this field, I can say R&D here is far cheaper than most R&D the government undertakes. In all honesty, having an in-house server for JOs and their divisions to work on would lead to a ton of R&D. I suspect the people working in these fields would stay a couple extra hours a few days a week to test ideas. An entire lab isn't required, just a secure server to connect to with computing power.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Read my post(s) on this thread, it should explain it.

https://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/swo-idc-options.45090/

That's all very interesting and enlightening, but does not make it any less confusing to me.

Let's break this down:

1) Meet none of the minimum educational, professional, or certification requirements.
2) Have no knowledge or experience in the field required for the job.
3) Getting selected for a designator not even put down in the application, despite being much better qualified for INTEL.
4) Have a high GPA in a humanities major and with absolutely no relation to the IP community's work.

Like INTEL would have made a lot more sense given the educational background than something highly technical and specialized such as IP which requires IT and CS educated people. Why not INTEL especially since that was applied for?

So if I go back to school for a B.A. in History (which I could do pretty well in) and get a 4.0 and make no mention of my other degrees, I could be 'competitive' even for highly technical/engineering, specialized designators? How would that make sense?

As a working professional engineer in a large and successful corporation that enforces minimum educational and professional requirements at multiple levels in the application process, this blows my mind. No company, especially not in this cutthroat industry I'm in, would take anyone if they didn't have education and/or experience related to the field of work. I'm legitimately concerned.

Was the IP community strapped for applicants and looking to make special exceptions, in particular for someone who didn't apply for IP?

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Let's break this down:

1) Meet none of the minimum educational, professional, or certification requirements.
2) Have no knowledge or experience in the field required for the job.
3) Getting selected for a designator not even put down in the application, despite being much better qualified for INTEL.
4) Have a high GPA in a humanities major and with absolutely no relation to the IP community's work.

@NavyOffRec explained it to you in the most elementary terms possible and in return you’re trying to turn this into a calculus.

1. IP doesn’t require certifications or certain degrees. Instead, it’s “highly preferred” individuals have a STEM degree. Also, most OCS programs don’t require work experience.
2. See #1
3. Intel, CW, IP, and OCEANO all fall under the same board. It’s been put out to recruiters that candidates applying for one or more IWC designators might be considered for others. I have seen folks apply for IP only get accepted to Intel, and of course vice versa. My guess with the 4.0 GPA poster is that the board already selected all the available intelligence spots but didn’t want her to be passed up. So they placed her with a designator that might have had a spot left.
4. See #1.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

I guess it makes sense given the specific context. Thanks sir. It is still surprising, nonetheless. And apologies about making it a calculus. Where I'm coming from, everything has to be a calculus.

 

[Brett327]

Where I'm coming from, everything has to be a calculus.

In the Navy, almost nothing is a calculus.

 

[BlueDacnis]

First off, I wish to congratulate you. It's absolutely awesome and a great achievement! However, I cannot hold my astonishment and confusion.

You also put down CW as your #1 pick which is closely related in terms of education and other requirements, so the same sorts of things with regards to IP apply to CW. There's very evidently something missing here. Did your OR never tell you what the minimum qualifications are for the designator?

Did your transcript include lots of computer science and/or IT-related courses? If not, I don't know what they would see in your transcript that is adequate.
Do you hold DoDD 8570-approved certifications?

The IP community, and this is coming from the OCM along with officers and recruiters, pretty much requires you to have some kind of computer/CS or IT educational background. Even other STEM fields are meh at best. Like what would a mechanical engineer be able to do with regards to computer systems, networks, and info sec?

Think about it this way: If you go and apply for an IT job or a software dev position (which is where people usually go with IT and CS degrees), they won't even interview you. Your education and experience have nothing to do with any of it. For example, if I were to apply for a civil engineering job or to the Seabees (even being a software and occasional electrical engineer), I'd get told to get my head checked as I have zero educational or work background in civil/mechanical engineering.

There has to be some very extreme circumstances going on in the IP community to basically break with policy and authorization. Getting selected for a designator you didn't apply for just adds to the funkiness. Either way, I'm extremely curious as to how this happened. Fortunately for us, we have some resident forumers from the NRC who would have an explanation. @NavyOffRec

I put IW as my first pick because my recruiter told me to. When I discovered that IW also required STEM coursework, I asked her to move it to my second choice and put intel as first, but she assured me I’d be fine. Of course I thought she’d doomed my kit. But her reasoning was that the O5 I did my interview with recommended me for IW, and it might appear backhanded to ask for intel first instead. I didn’t agree, but in the end, I got selected for something, so I’m not fussed. I’m not stupid and I know how to use the internet. Trust me, I looked into all the designators and figured my only shot for any intel designator was straight intel. I knew what the internet said was required for IW and IP. But my recruiter and the O5 I spoke to both seemed to think what the internet said is not to be given weight. Think of this, as well. I’ve seen plenty of people apply for intel with high GPA masters degrees and not get selected. Meanwhile a girl from my recruiting district with a 3.2 history degree got selected. Why? Nobody knows.

IP is a pretty small designator. And the board I was selected in didn’t break the mold regarding how many people they took, so it wasn’t an “open the floodgates, we need intel people badly, throw this humanity major in with the IPs, we just need bodies” type ordeal. It was just as selective as other intel boards. I don’t get it, either. Maybe they want to experiment and see what happens when you throw an English major into the IP mix. My transcript contained only a small number of upper level mathematics and science classes, and I had only an introduction to computer science course. I can’t tell you why I was selected, other than @NavyOffRec ’s explanation. Just a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence.

Whatever the reasoning or fluke, I am extremely grateful. Also, just for the record, I know a reserve IP (an O4) who majored in journalism. Upon leaving active duty, he got a very nice job with his top secret clearance in the DC area. Very nice person with a humanities background who did just fine in IP.

 

[BlueDacnis]

Maybe it was my absolutely fabulous motivational statement. I am an English major after all. Kidding.

Idk, I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth. All I can do is trust the Navy’s inexplicable decision, do my best, and hope that I deserve their recommendation. And, God willing I pull through it all, that I am an IP officer worthy of my future sailors.

 

[BackOrdered]

I put IW as my first pick because my recruiter told me to. When I discovered that IW also required STEM coursework, I asked her to move it to my second choice and put intel as first, but she assured me I’d be fine. Of course I thought she’d doomed my kit. But her reasoning was that the O5 I did my interview with recommended me for IW, and it might appear backhanded to ask for intel first instead. I didn’t agree, but in the end, I got selected for something, so I’m not fussed. I’m not stupid and I know how to use the internet. Trust me, I looked into all the designators and figured my only shot for any intel designator was straight intel. I knew what the internet said was required for IW and IP. But my recruiter and the O5 I spoke to both seemed to think what the internet said is not to be given weight. Think of this, as well. I’ve seen plenty of people apply for intel with high GPA masters degrees and not get selected. Meanwhile a girl from my recruiting district with a 3.2 history degree got selected. Why? Nobody knows.

IP is a pretty small designator. And the board I was selected in didn’t break the mold regarding how many people they took, so it wasn’t an “open the floodgates, we need intel people badly, throw this humanity major in with the IPs, we just need bodies” type ordeal. It was just as selective as other intel boards. I don’t get it, either. Maybe they want to experiment and see what happens when you throw an English major into the IP mix. My transcript contained only a small number of upper level mathematics and science classes, and I had only an introduction to computer science course. I can’t tell you why I was selected, other than @NavyOffRec ’s explanation. Just a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence.

Whatever the reasoning or fluke, I am extremely grateful. Also, just for the record, I know a reserve IP (an O4) who majored in journalism. Upon leaving active duty, he got a very nice job with his top secret clearance in the DC area. Very nice person with a humanities background who did just fine in IP.

You are a saint as I fail to see a need to justify yourself. A board convened and a board adjourned and you were selected out of that pool. Congrats, kick ass in the fleet and be sure to live up the confidence place in you!

 

[bubblehead]

The IP community takes English majors now?

No special skills, education, or certifications are required to be successful as an IP/Intel/IW, etc. officer.

 

[AULANI]

If you want to apply to IWC, do it. Just don't get butt-hurt if you don't get selected.

Me, I wish I could be a pilot but (to quote Lt. Col. Frank Slade) I'm too old, I'm too tired, I'm too fuckin' blind.

 

[bubblehead]

If you want to apply to IWC, do it. Just don't get butt-hurt if you don't get selected.

Me, I wish I could be a pilot but (to quote Lt. Col. Frank Slade) I'm too old, I'm too tired, I'm too fuckin' blind.

Pilot/NFO requires special skills.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

She didn't apply for Pilot/NFO because she didn't want to end up in @Brett327's squadron. Good move.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Hmm, I may be misinterpreted as going after others. It's absolutely not the intention. I am very happy about smorris' selection and wish my warmest congratulations. My astonishment and curiosity had only been with the process itself and my original understanding. But if in fact no particular skills or education are needed, it makes it a lot different.

I was under the impression someone would have to have some decent understanding of computer science and IT networking/infosec to be considered for selection, just like there's strict educational/skill requirements for CEC, EDOs/AEDOs/AMDOs, CWEs, and some other designators. If that's not the case for INTEL/CW/IP, then it all makes sense. For that, I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding.

To be clear where I'm coming from, it is without a doubt a process you'll rarely, if ever, find in the civilian world (barring cases of nepotism) in engineering/IT-related industries. If your education, skills, and experience do not directly correlate to the position, you won't even be considered. I'm not sure if other folks on this forum work in these fields outside of the DoD, but for those who do, some degree of surprise is expected. In any case, if anyone has any interest in getting into the tech industry at any point in the future, I'm more than happy to help, especially as I do this sort of thing IRL.