Woman + Subs

[A4sForever]

Have you ever been in combat??? Or is your opinion based on the 'theoretical' and/or 'academic' ... ???

I would NEVER subject USA women to combat if we don't have to ... or men, for that matter -- but that's another subject.

Women don't belong in combat units ... and you think they do -- but you've never 'seen the elephant' ... or have you ???

I don't think our women should be subjected to combat ... what else is there to say ... ???

*EDIT* ... and yes, I have trained and flown w/ 2-3 dozen female pilots over the years ... probably way more than you (?) ... and while I always treated 'em fairly ... they were uniformly sub-standard to the 'average' male pilot in terms of procedures and performance. Only ONE stood out as 'superior' to her male counterparts -- she had her own plane and was a modern day version of a 'barnstormer'.

I don't make the 'rules' ... and I don't build 'em ... I just fly 'em ... sorry if that might burst a bubble or two ...

 

[60flyer]

Have you ever been in combat??? Or is your opinion based on the 'theoretical' and/or 'academic' ... ???

I would NEVER subject USA women to combat if we don't have to ... or men, for that matter -- but that's another subject.

Women don't belong in combat units ... and you think they do -- but you've never 'seen the elephant' ... or have you ???

I don't think our women should be subjected to combat ... what else is there to say ... ???

Nope, I sure haven't. But if a woman is capable and wants to do it - who are you to say she can't?

And not all aviation units are combat. Nor subs.

 

[A4sForever]

Nope, I sure haven't. But if a woman is capable ....

How do you or anyone else 'know' she's 'capable' ... ???

And even if you can theoretically come up with an equivalence in 'training' or in the simulator ... I don't care whether she's 'capable' or not ... women don't belong in combat units. Why do we want women to endure the rigors of combat??? Why would any sane person want women to die in combat when it's not necessary ... ('cause they will die if we put 'em on the line ) ???

Especially when they don't have to ... ??? There's another agenda at work here, and it's not about women in the military or women in combat.

How much further must we debase the respect for and the quality of women vs. men in our society so as to make everyone 'feel equal' and 'feel good' about themselves ... ???

Must we make everyone the 'same' ???

Sorry, but your argument and the question = it's bullshit.

 

[Spekkio]

And not all aviation units are combat. Nor subs.

Every submarine in existence, with the exception of the NR-1 which I think is retired, is built to conduct combat operations. The only reason we don't do this right now because we're not at war with a big Naval power.

 

[60flyer]

How do you or anyone else 'know' she's 'capable' ... ???

And even if you can theoretically come up with an equivalence in 'training' or in the simulator ... I don't care whether she's 'capable' or not ... women don't belong in combat units. Why do we want women to endure the rigors of combat??? Why would any sane person want women to die in combat when it's not necessary ... ('cause they will die if we put 'em on the line ) ???

Especially when they don't have to ... ??? There's another agenda at work here, and it's not about women in the military or women in combat.

How much further must we debase the respect for and the quality of women vs. men in our society so as to make everyone 'feel equal' and 'feel good' about themselves ... ???

Must we make everyone the 'same' ???

Sorry, but your argument and the question = it's bullshit.

I meant if she's capable in the same way men train.

So a woman is equal, but limited in what she can do because you can't handle the thought of a woman dying in an aircraft crash or in a sub? Hell, maybe women shouldn't drive cars either since I'm way more likely to die in a car accident than in a plane....

 

[60flyer]

Every submarine in existence, with the exception of the NR-1 which I think is retired, is built to conduct combat operations. The only reason we don't do this right now because we're not at war with a big Naval power.

I think A4s was talking about direct combat or situations where woman could be taken as a prisoner of war. So I don't see how subs fit that description.

 

[A4sForever]

..... Hell, maybe women shouldn't drive cars either since I'm way more likely to die in a car accident than in a plane....

Hell ??? HELL ??? Do you talk to your Mother w/ that mouth ???
BTW, Trophy Wife ® is a mo' bettah' 'driver' than you, I, or most of the others on this august website will ever be .... she could compete in the INDY 500.

But do I want her in combat ??? I think not ...

 

[60flyer]

Hell ??? HELL ??? Do you talk to your Mother w/ that mouth ???

Indeed I do!

BTW, Trophy Wife ® is a mo' bettah' 'driver' than you, I, or most of the others on this august website will ever be .... she could compete in the INDY 500.

But do I want her in combat ??? I think not ...

Just because YOU may not want her in combat doesn't mean anything dangerous should be shut down to women!

 

[A4sForever]

.... doesn't mean anything dangerous should be shut down to women!

Of course not. Women can do a bunch of 'dangerous' things anyday, anyway ...

My middle name is "Dangerous" ...

 

[60flyer]

Of course not. Women can do a bunch of 'dangerous' things anyday, anyway ...

Well at least we can agree on SOMETHING!

 

[EM1]

And even if you can theoretically come up with an equivalence in 'training' or in the simulator ... I don't care whether she's 'capable' or not ... women don't belong in combat units. Why do we want women to endure the rigors of combat??? Why would any sane person want women to die in combat when it's not necessary ... ('cause they will die if we put 'em on the line ) ???

Especially when they don't have to ... ??? There's another agenda at work here, and it's not about women in the military or women in combat.

There is another agenda at work here, and its the agenda of manning. The submarine community comes up short officer ascesions every year, while women are asking if they can pick up some of the slack. We send about 75% of our students here to aviation, a community where they're so backed up now they're putting people in the IRR for up to a year while they await classing up. In spite of this, we have one midshipman who is designated subs and one more thinking about it. They can do one of two things at this point, force USNA and NROTC ascessions towards submarine duty, or open the community to all qualified applicants. I don't want women in combat either, and I certainly would prefer all male crews on submarines. When it comes down to manning though, I can't see this going any other way until enough men step up and do what so many women have already said they are willing to do.

 

[Spekkio]

I can't see this going any other way until enough men step up and do what so many women have already said they are willing to do.

Do you have any factual data to support this? Everyone seems to be under the assumption that women are going to flood the gates once they're allowed to serve in the sub force. If men don't want to do it, and we're going to lose a certain percentage of that based on the presence of women alone, then what makes you think women will want to do it?

 

[The Chief]

... factual data to support this? ....

Factual data of a future event? Or factual that "many women have already said" ...?

Only an opinion but I think you will get enough women to volunteer that you could set up a decent screening of volunteers. Just my .02C

 

[Spekkio]

Factual data of how many women would have or would join the submarine force if given the opportunity.

 

[Spekkio]

I think A4s was talking about direct combat or situations where woman could be taken as a prisoner of war. So I don't see how subs fit that description.

I don't know if A4's meant that or not. Judging by the fact that he directly referenced dying in combat, I don't think that was his criteria.