Women issues

[smittyrunr]

No, the absolute worst time would be on your sea tour, and to get pregnant right before deployment.
You can get back in the training pipeline if you have a kid in flight school and you aren't really screwing your buddies in terms of the job. As long as you have a supportive husband who is ready to do just about all of the full-time parenting you aren't screwing your kid for the rest of his/her life, either.
But never is probably a reasonable answer, too.

 

[BACONATOR]

Why are you planning to have a child if you do not want to raise it?

Flying for the Navy is a total committment and so is having a child.

I don't give a crap how many people you know that have done it "successfully", you can either do one or the other well but you cannot do both.

If you decide to try both I truly feel sorry for your children that will be without a mother during the most important part of ther upbringing. You are not planning this for your kids; from what I can tell on this thread, it is all about you and what you want.

I am guessing you are not a big Dr. Laura fan.

Why don't you go have your flying career and then adopt later on?


Good luck on your decision.


Steve

Talk about a hypocrite. Dr. Laura is horrible, and her kid is a fvcking idiot (not to mention extremely irresponsible, immature and a trouble maker). How do I know says you? I went to school with him. Her parenting skills leave much to be desired. Your point was valid, your example was not. I fully agree with your post though. Just didn't want to miss a Dr. Laura bashing opportunity.

 

[Flash]

Who's whining??? You're getting worse, not better with age.

And the Israeli's didn't "do bad" because of their military ... it was how that military was utilized.

You just flunked another history course. I didn't even know you were in class ....

Sorry to tell you this A4s, but I know a lot more about the Israeli's and their performance (draftee's included) in last years war than you or just about anyone else on this board. They did bad because of the leadership at all levels, and their atrophying conventional combat skills. The latter is partly a result in their reliance in an almost entirely draftee force. People a lot smarter than me, you and almost everyone on this board think that.......so I'll agree with them.

 

[Flash]

I'm definitely not "whining" Flash, maybe I'm just overstating the obvious. This "Diversity" issue is a huge deal and is gaining momentum everyday. The Navy is obsessed with matching the cultural and ethnic makeup of its forces with that of American society. Apparently, that is the only way we are going to meet our recruiting goals (according to the Navy that is). Sounds good on paper and makes great political talking points when trying to increase recruiting numbers and selling equal opportunity. But it's not working (IMO). We need more people (qualified people that is) and maybe the draft needs to be considered further. At the end of the day, I want Navy SEAL's like LT Murphy kicking ass and taking names in my Navy, not an organization that mirrors the cultural and ethnic fabric of modern society. Where am I wrong ???

If the Navy were so obsessed about diversity then we would have much more women and minorities then there already are in Naval Aviation in particular and the military as a whole. Do you know how many non-white male pilots or NFO's were in my first squadron? A grand total of about 10 out of 150 my entire time there. This included one black male and one female, most of the rest were asian or hispanic. That was it. My second squadron was much more diverse, but white males still constituted 80% of the officer numbers.

If the Navy was so obsessed with diversity, those numbers would have been much different.

 

[soccermaniac723]

I think the general answer on when the best time to have a kid is a resounding "NEVER" from the airwarriors mob, and it has nothing to do with hating women. I really don't think that it is based off of a misogynistic attitude, but a simple response to the question. As far as your career is concerned, when is the best time to have a kid? NEVER. That is probably true for any career (and for both genders for that matter), but it is especially true in naval aviation. Obviously people will want to have kids, but they should know that their career WILL suffer to a degree, and it will suffer more so for women than for men. Biology is a cruel bitch, but such are the facts of life. The point most people are trying to hammer home is that before training is the ABSOLUTE WORST TIME to have the kid if she is serious about being an aviator. That's it.

So from what you are saying women shouldn't be in the work force but rather at home taking care of their kids. Are you telling me that if I want to have kids I should just give up and have my husband support me? Then if that's the case, if I want a career I should commit genetic suicide and never have kids? Oh yeah, does this mean that father's aren't as committed to their children as mother's are?

 

[a_m]

So from what you are saying women shouldn't be in the work force but rather at home taking care of their kids. Are you telling me that if I want to have kids I should just give up and have my husband support me? Then if that's the case, if I want a career I should commit genetic suicide and never have kids? Oh yeah, does this mean that father's aren't as committed to their children as mother's are?

You are entirely too defensive about a question YOU asked and all the personal viewpoints that ensued. There will never be a "convenient" time to have a child and have a career in ANY field, it's just that naval aviation has even narrower scenarios where you would be able to spend the time that you would want to spend with your child.

As everyone else has said (to your original question), flight school is a terrible time to have a child. Hell, a guy in my class (who was nearly 30) had his 2nd child during flight school. He slept downstairs on the couch while his pregnant wife slept upstairs with his first child. He hardly had any time to spend with his family. That's how stressful it can be just for the husband, much less actually carrying the child to term.

 

[Herc_Dude]

You are entirely too defensive about a question YOU asked and all the personal viewpoints that ensued. There will never be a "convenient" time to have a child and have a career in ANY field, it's just that naval aviation has even narrower scenarios where you would be able to spend the time that you would want to spend with your child.

As everyone else has said (to your original question), flight school is a terrible time to have a child. Hell, a guy in my class (who was nearly 30) had his 2nd child during flight school. He slept downstairs on the couch while his pregnant wife slept upstairs with his first child. He hardly had any time to spend with his family. That's how stressful it can be just for the husband, much less actually carrying the child to term.

I don't think this one is going to 'get it'. It has been explained from the angle of being a student, fleet aviator, as well as anatomically. Do what feels good, right? Its what I want to do, right? Me, me, me ... where does this leave this kid? Where will this leave your shipmates?

Its pretty simple, do the RIGHT thing.

 

[robav8r]

My second squadron was much more diverse, but white males still constituted 80% of the officer numbers.

If the Navy was so obsessed with diversity, those numbers would have been much different.

That's one of my points Flash, the supply of white males is not sustainable. I'm fully aware of what our composition is now (in Naval Aviation), but it's going to change in the near future and Big Navy is trying to posture itself to be able to capitalize on the ethnic makeup our society is rapidly becoming. Check out "Death of the West" by Buchanan (if your interested) . . . . a good read.

 

[Flash]

So from what you are saying women shouldn't be in the work force but rather at home taking care of their kids. Are you telling me that if I want to have kids I should just give up and have my husband support me? Then if that's the case, if I want a career I should commit genetic suicide and never have kids? Oh yeah, does this mean that father's aren't as committed to their children as mother's are?

The reason you are getting a lot of visceral reactions from guys here is that many of us have had personal experinces of women using their gender as an unfair advantage in the military. This is definitely not the case for all women, many are very sharp. But it sometimes happens that a woman finds herself in a tight spot and instead of taking their licks they pull the gender card and get away with something.

When you talk about having kids now many guys have visions of you sniveling a lot more, asking to be excused from many things and having your colleagues pick up the slack. You may have seen this in your time as a sailor, but it is especially resented in aviation since it is so much more demanding than many professions in the Navy, probably the most demanding since women are excluded from the SEALs and subs.

My advice, if you want to have kids and fly do it on your first shore tour. At that point, it will have a minimal impact on your career, especially if you are not in a flying billet. After that though, you or your husband will have to make the big sacrifice and probably put your career on hold for a while. And the Navy really doesn't let you do that. Tough choice, and you might not have to face it after a while, but one that would come sooner or later.

 

[Flash]

That's one of my points Flash, the supply of white males is not sustainable. I'm fully aware of what our composition is now (in Naval Aviation), but it's going to change in the near future and Big Navy is trying to posture itself to be able to capitalize on the ethnic makeup our society is rapidly becoming. Check out "Death of the West" by Buchanan (if your interested) . . . . a good read.

Is that so wrong, if they are willing and able to serve?

 

[Brett327]

So from what you are saying women shouldn't be in the work force but rather at home taking care of their kids. Are you telling me that if I want to have kids I should just give up and have my husband support me? Then if that's the case, if I want a career I should commit genetic suicide and never have kids? Oh yeah, does this mean that father's aren't as committed to their children as mother's are?

Genetic suicide - what psycho-babble. What that really means is that you're more interested in the vanity of making carbon copies of yourself, and not so concerned about whether you'll be able to give a child everything it deserves as it develops. Ever consider the possibility that your genetic material may not be worth passing on? You're one out of billions of people out there - I think the gene-pool can survive without you.

Brett

 

[FMRAM]

I really, really like this thread.

 

[Flash]

I really, really like this thread.

Kind of like the shennanigans that went on when we were on det, only this time filtered through your computer.....

 

[A4sForever]

Genetic suicide - what psycho-babble. - I think the gene-pool can survive without you.

Brett

Excellent advice ... right to the point .... for me, this thread is over.

A4s, OUT.:sleep_125

 

[CommodoreMid]

http://sheilascarborough.com/_wsn/page5.html

Here's a good article from a senior Navy woman on how she manages it. From this article and the comments of guys here it seems like it's probably easier being a SWO mom than an aviator mom (and I bet that's probably why a larger proportion of female officers commission into SWO than aviation), but she has good advice nonetheless.