Never heard of it before, if it was a thing in the past it was never enforced because I have known plenty who didn't do 2 years after getting the lobotomy.
The Armed Forces Reserve Medal is the one both O's and E's get in the Navy Reserve.
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Crossing the finish line... running, walking or crawling... (Reserve Retirement Process)
- Thread starter RHINOWSO
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- reserve retirement
Never heard of it before, if it was a thing in the past it was never enforced because I have known plenty who didn't do 2 years after getting the lobotomy.
The Armed Forces Reserve Medal is the one both O's and E's get in the Navy Reserve.
Looks like I have a few years to go...
This. As for the previous question, I was talking in terms of folks who had plans to stick around in SELRES, where of course the promotion does matter if you like more money
@ Flash, yeah, I think I did 16 months active after I promoted/pinned O4 (though I didn't take additional orders, nor was I asked to), so this definitely wasn't a thing even a couple years ago (or if it was, it wasn't enforced).
Or just take a MOB.
? Name is already on the mob ready list.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
This. As for the previous question, I was talking in terms of folks who had plans to stick around in SELRES, where of course the promotion does matter if you like more money
Honestly, if this is a new "rule", it appears to be an answer looking for a problem. I don't even think Big Navy is savvy enough to implement AND track something like this. The system is flawed as is, since you don't even have to sign promotion paperwork to be promoted; once your name comes up on the NAVADMIN, the system automatically promotes you electronically. I am example of that, as I noticed the pay increase when I made O4 and then decided "might as well make it "official" well after the fact.
Then there is the obvious loophole. You can turn down the promotion on active, affiliate to SELRES, which you would immediately go to the next Reserve O4 board and definitely make rank (because if your record was strong enough to make it active, you are more than strong enough to make it reserve).
My final thought on it: what exactly would be the penalty of not doing the 2 years? Seems like this would cross a legal line to tie a specific Military rank promotion to you signing more years of service. It would also need to apply to all Officer communities, not just the ones with manning issues.
Sure, I could see the military moving in this direction for all officer ranks. The mechanism would be the oath of office - when you swear in to your next rank and some paperwork is generated for PER, you agree to stay in your current status (AD or SELRES) for another two years. If you separate from that status before two years, you revert to the previous rank. Needs of the Navy. Consider the dates of rank of Dwight D Eisenhower.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
They COULD do it, just seems doubtful they WOULD do it.
As mentioned, there is already a loophole you can exploit. And the reason the loophole is there is because we have separate systems in handling active and reserve processes. Also, as mentioned, you don't have to sign a thing and you will still promote once your name pops up on the NAVADMIN. The paperwork is truly just a formality - don't even recall seeing it in my OMPF (my origianal oath is, but not my promotion paperwork).
The way it's setup now, there is nothing to stop someone from signing an agreement, pinning rank and walking right over to reserve at same rank before that time is up. The current time in grade needed for O4 is 6 months (another element to address). You would have to rely on the reserve system to catch the person and demote them to previous rank. We already only have minimal folks working reserve processes (including retirement, the motivation behind this thread). And said paperwork would need to transfer from active to reserve to even have a chance of catching it!
So if reserve side isn't staffed to catch it when affiliation occurs, it would fall on the active side to catch it before you depart. The same process that already handles most things electronically (DD214, etc). You don't face to face with anyone when separating beyond TGPS/TAPS.
Who acts as gatekeeper for this system? The answer would be to bridge all processes active and reserve into one system - but this hardly seems the catalyst to make that happen. It's not THAT serious.
As mentioned, there is already a loophole you can exploit. And the reason the loophole is there is because we have separate systems in handling active and reserve processes. Also, as mentioned, you don't have to sign a thing and you will still promote once your name pops up on the NAVADMIN. The paperwork is truly just a formality - don't even recall seeing it in my OMPF (my origianal oath is, but not my promotion paperwork).
The way it's setup now, there is nothing to stop someone from signing an agreement, pinning rank and walking right over to reserve at same rank before that time is up. The current time in grade needed for O4 is 6 months (another element to address). You would have to rely on the reserve system to catch the person and demote them to previous rank. We already only have minimal folks working reserve processes (including retirement, the motivation behind this thread). And said paperwork would need to transfer from active to reserve to even have a chance of catching it!
So if reserve side isn't staffed to catch it when affiliation occurs, it would fall on the active side to catch it before you depart. The same process that already handles most things electronically (DD214, etc). You don't face to face with anyone when separating beyond TGPS/TAPS.
Who acts as gatekeeper for this system? The answer would be to bridge all processes active and reserve into one system - but this hardly seems the catalyst to make that happen. It's not THAT serious.
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I'm not sure if you are asking what the penalty for the service member would be, or what it would be for the Navy? I'd say on the service member level, guys who want to get out ASAP probably don't want to stick around for another 2 years on new orders/another move/etc. COVID obviously changes that calculus for some people.....
Also I didn't really clarify....this isn't a future plan, it happened to a number of folks last week in VFA.
Also I didn't really clarify....this isn't a future plan, it happened to a number of folks last week in VFA.
The penalty for the Navy is clearly that the Navy had a need for another person of designator X at rank X, and they did the paperwork to fill the billet, then the billet became vacant because they gave it to someone who didn't really want it.
I understand this will happen a certain % of the time, people's life circumstances do change, and in the aggregate it all washes under the bridge and doesn't really matter to the Navy if one extra person drops or stays in. I will never hold it against someone to make self-interested decisions in response to the incentives presented to them (economic rational actor). But the Navy or Congress can certainly adjust those incentives.
I am actually not sure if the Navy is 100% manned at O4 and O5 in all communities, but I know certain designators are undermanned at O4 (e.g. 1825 O4 @bubblehead ). I suppose, the logic goes, if the Navy was 100% manned at those critical O4/O5 ranks in each designator, the remaining O4s/O5s would be less overworked and less grumpy, on average.
I understand this will happen a certain % of the time, people's life circumstances do change, and in the aggregate it all washes under the bridge and doesn't really matter to the Navy if one extra person drops or stays in. I will never hold it against someone to make self-interested decisions in response to the incentives presented to them (economic rational actor). But the Navy or Congress can certainly adjust those incentives.
I am actually not sure if the Navy is 100% manned at O4 and O5 in all communities, but I know certain designators are undermanned at O4 (e.g. 1825 O4 @bubblehead ). I suppose, the logic goes, if the Navy was 100% manned at those critical O4/O5 ranks in each designator, the remaining O4s/O5s would be less overworked and less grumpy, on average.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, you already inquired on the main forum, since this really is an active duty "problem". There are folks on those threads that don't venture over here as much; might make for more interesting discussion there.
Yep - meant penalty to service member.
IMHO, tying promotion to additional years of service doesn't move the needle much. If there is a retention issue, offer a true retention bonus, like they do for Nuke Officers, etc. Or better yet, factor that attrition better into the selection boards.
I didn't post anywhere else......you are correct it is an active thing, though I'd assume the future crop of possible SELRES folks (who this would apply to) might be listening here.
Interesting point about the Nuke Officer bonus.....what is it? Never paid attention. In military terms, the Aviator bonus (at least for VFA/VAQ 1310) is pretty decent. I don't think that swayed the needle very much in the last few years either, to be quite honest.
Reference?
That's actually what I was interested in finding. I know a couple people who this happened with, but could not find any supporting documentation.
