12 Dead, 31 Wounded @ FT HOOD

[Bevo16]

When it becomes an everyday thing, then we'll talk about arming everyone on base.

Well, this is twice in very recent memory.

Most people don't remember this incident from Camp Liberty Iraq, but it does help to prove A4's point that the people that do this kind of thing are "crazy", but still sane enough to attack people that they know will not be armed.

OBTW, the guy who did the shooting in this case has been declared incompetent to stand trial.

Then there was this incident, while off-base, the soldiers would have benefited from being armed:

Muslim murders Army recruiter in Arkansas.

 

[A4sForever]

...useless words ...

Since you want to keep raggin' on it --- like I said: if you don't like my 'sentiment' ... Fuck You. I know it's 'hard' for the 10% of you on this website who are PC'ers or lefties ... but you just don't matter.

How can I make it any clearer ... just for you???

*edit* ... shouldn't you be watching the radar screen or something?? Spending YOUR time on AW's is NOT how I like to spend MY tax dollars ...

 

[Cleonard19]

Most people don't remember [URL="http://abcnews
OBTW, the guy who did the shooting in this case has been declared incompetent to stand trial.

FUCK. THAT. SHIT.

I'm sorry, but anyone stupid enough to murder another human being in cold blood obviously isn't completely right in the head, for whatever reason. By that standard, we shouldn't prosecute anyone who commits a felony, because if they were truly sane, they wouldn't have done it in the first place....


What ever happened to people being held personally accountable for their actions?

 

[Flash]

Since you want to keep raggin' on it --- like I said: if you don't like my 'sentiment' ... Fuck You. You just don't matter.

How can I make it any clearer ... just for you???

No, I got it the first time. The funny thing is that you matter even less than I do. Ironic, isn't it? All that impotent rage seething out in the aisles of the Commissary while hunting for limes, no wonder everything has to bolded for effect. How is that for sentiment?

 

[Flash]

*edit* ... shouldn't you be watching the radar screen or something?? Spending YOUR time on AW's is NOT how I like to spend MY tax dollars ...

I ain't at work, though I am sure it is will be of great comfort that I will be back next week, keeping the world safe for democracy....or socialism, whatever, doesn't really matter now anyways.

 

[Rocketman]

Right, they're MPs, I.E. extra training and specific purpose for carrying - not what we're talking about. You say "but it may have to happen" like there's some kind of imperative for this. What happened yesterday was a freak occurrance. Nobody is going to make any significant changes in policy based on this. When it becomes an everyday thing, then we'll talk about arming everyone on base.

Brett

Poor choice of words on my part Sir. To be clear, I think attacks like this will become more common place and I believe that more MP's armed with M4's will prevent some of those attacks.

 

[madmex]

Only thing that matters here is the victims of this senseless act. Flash you sir are right in so many ways. I pray for their families and the families of all who have paid the ultimate sacrifice.

 

[Brett327]

Poor choice of words on my part Sir. To be clear, I think attacks like this will become more common place and I believe that more MP's armed with M4's will prevent some of those attacks.

I don't. We will always have the occasional random crazy person who goes berzerk and kills a bunch of people. We (as a society) always wring our hands after the fact and say "something should be done to prevent this from happening again," but you're never going to stop it. Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens. It happens in democracies, it happens under dictatorships and it happened in the Soviet Union. Nothing we do can stop this. No amount of security will be 100% effective at preventing this, no matter how draconian. The game we have to play is to determine where the diminishing point of return is in preventive measures. This "arm everyone" sentiment is a normal overreaction to events like this.

Brett

 

[xj220]

I don't. We will always have the occasional random crazy person who goes berzerk and kills a bunch of people. We (as a society) always wring our hands after the fact and say "something should be done to prevent this from happening again," but you're never going to stop it. Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens. It happens in democracies, it happens under dictatorships and it happened in the Soviet Union. Nothing we do can stop this. No amount of security will be 100% effective at preventing this, no matter how draconian. The game we have to play is to determine where the diminishing point of return is in preventive measures. This "arm everyone" sentiment is a normal overreaction to events like this.

Brett

Also, while arming everyone may prevent incidents like this, who knows how many other incidents will occur because everyone is armed. Just because you train people doesn't mean you can prevent jackassery.

 

[Ducky]

Thank you for clearing that up. Keeping it short for this thread, the time that it is taking the Request for Forces for more troops in Afghanistan is not very unusual nor unprecedented. The RFF process is specifically set up to take into account all aspects of a request, including political ones when it gets to the top. The supposed 'non-decision' is actually the process working as it should. The fact that it is under such public scrutiny is the unusual part.

Who gives a fuck about the bureaucratic bullshit you are telling us about! Troops are oversees and the generals are asking for re-enforcements. Its time for the boss to make a damn decision; and stop worrying about the consequences it may have on re-election.

Also, I didn't know it was appropriate to "shout out" to a Medal of Honor recipent. How about a respectful recognition from the highest office. Perception is reality.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I am by no means a gun control nut...that said, you'll realize the folly of this statement once you get to the fleet. Trust me, nobody wants a bunch of airman Schmuckatellis walking around with pistols. Horrible idea.

I'd be comfortable with it on a Marine Base...

The circumstances when we entrust them to handle weapons are very controlled. The only folks on a ship or squadron who carry sidearms do so with lots of extra training and with a specific purpose (I.E. security forces). We trust our troops with lots of things, but you do so with a calculated risk based on the benefits vs. the potential risks. Arming everyone on base on the off-hand chance that a freak criminal act will be stopped doesn't meet that threshold in my view. The potential for abuse is too great and the possibility of benefit too small.

Have you applied for a concealed carry permit in Virginia recently? All that "extra training" and "tight control" goes out the fucking window, because as long as you have a military ID (and you could be a friggin' CS at the chow hall) you can get one. So now you've got a dude who can't carry on base, but can carry off. Which do you think can cause more damage?

 

[A4sForever]

(if) .... there's some kind of imperative for this .... then we'll talk about arming everyone on base.

Brett

Maybe not for this thread; but: I don't think anyone's lobbying to have 'everyone on base' armed ... I know I'm not ...

However, I think it's reasonable to extend the legitimate, legal, proven, and government licensed right of self-defense to cover a law abiding citizen on both sides of the perimeter. There's nothing more inherently duplicitous than a government that says I can 'carry' legally outside the wire after jumping through the appropriate hoops -- I just can't 'carry' inside. And on a military base, to boot ... weapons ... sidearms ... the military ... I thought they went together, like salt & pepper???

The government sanctions (and collects a tax on) my ability to carry and protect myself & others OUTSIDE of a government facility -- just not 'inside'. Ridiculous -- and it effectively disarms that same person 'outside the wire' in the mean streets of civie-town USA if any part of the journey might take them to say ... to the NEX ... the Commissary ... the Post Office. Brings a whole new light to the term 'going postal', ye-as???

 

[Flash]

Who gives a fuck about the bureaucratic bullshit you are telling us about! Troops are oversees and the generals are asking for re-enforcements. Its time for the boss to make a damn decision; and stop worrying about the consequences it may have on re-election.

You should, because that is the way all deployments in the military are done. In today's military there is always more need than resources and your fellow officers are trying to make sure that the right forces go to the right places. Though it is bureaucratic it is necessary, and is pretty streamlined actually. You can't throw people and equipment around on a simple whim, there has to be a balance of what you want and what you can do. Stick around post-DH and you might get stuck with that job too.

As for carrying arms on base, possibly if there were a 'Federal' FFL like someone suggested earlier. Even then I am doubtful it would help, with the rarity of these incidents.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I'd be comfortable with it on a Marine Base...

Me too, because Marines actually train all of their people at boot/TBS how to handle weapons. Why don't we take an extra week or so at boot for our Sailors to learn how to handle a pistol? Why not make it part of the ROTC curriculum to get mids pistol qualled? Part of me is embarrassed that as a naval officer I don't know jack about handling a firearm. Taking a class has been on my to-do list for quite some time, but at the end of the day wouldn't it make a lot more sense for everyone to get qualled the Navy way, vice individual units or a lot of people doing it on their own.

 

[navy09]

Why don't we take an extra week or so at boot for our Sailors to learn how to handle a pistol?

IIRC, all sailors qualify at least with the M9 in boot camp.

...wouldn't it make a lot more sense for everyone to get qualled the Navy way, vice individual units or a lot of people doing it on their own...

I think pretty much all fleet units out there do this. It could be different in the aviation world, but I doubt it seeing as pilots have to carry guns when flying in some places and the squadrons must be required to provide force protection watchstanders on the boat or on their base.