MasterBates
Well-Known Member
The SWO does have a point...
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
6 Navy Commanding Officers Sacked in 6 Weeks
- Thread starter raptor10
- Start date
Now I see what the sarcasm meter is for! Seriously; I happen to agree with your point. I don't see why it wouldn't just be the senior officer on duty at the time who gets sacked. Of course, I've been around long enough to know the difference between responsibility and accountability and that that isn't the way it works even if it's the way I thik it should. This Sergeant don't know, sir.
Ok when you pull a Captain Hazelton then they can you.
Dingobat, bear in mind the Fraternization does not just have to cross the E to O line, you can have it within enlisted and officer ranks. And it also has to be measured within the chain of command, such as a Senior NCO in a unit messing around (drinking/partying/screwing) some lower level E within that unit. It is unproffesional, creates an element of favoritism, and is general disruptive to good order and discipline which is exactly why frat is discouraged. Thats not to say you cant talk/associate with members of your unit just because they are in your chain or not at your pay grade. It just gets a bit complicated.
Hey thanks Lawman! That was the kind of answer I was looking for! Makes a whole lot of sense to can someone for that reason if the CO is doing exactly the opposite of what his/her job is by creating "favoritism and disruption to order and discipline" through frat. and so on.
If that's the case then, how do other inter-Navy relationships work? If you meet someone and are interested in them, are you allowed to pursue it "off time" as in while your not serving together aboard the same ship? Kinda off topic, but I always wondered if Military couples faired better b/c an understanding of what each has to go through and a knowledge of the stress of the job exists due to both of their experiences in the service.
Yep.
Arleigh Burke's commanding officer relieved of duty
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=125145&ran=14849
Wow, I have to give you a Below for SA.
On a more interesting note, did anyone notice that the CO was female? She must be one of the first female CO's of a CruDes.
I have to say that I find it strangely reassuring that the same standards are being held for both male and female CO's. I say strangely only because I find the zero defect standard frustrating.
Fun fact: Admiral Nimitz ran aground
I remember going through my Prospective Commanding Officer (PCO) course and the Navy IG came and spoke to us. Several things have stayed with me since that day over 16 years ago.
One, he said it takes months and months, often years, to build up a command to where it is an effective, efficient, smooth running warfighting instrument, but it can be undone in a matter of days or less.
Two, at the start of his four hour lecture, he told a funny joke I don't remember. Then, he said that was the last humor for the next four hours. We didn't take a break, and it seemed like he was only there for less than an hour. We were all shocked when he was done and it really was 1700, four hours after he began. I was stunned at all the ways you could lose a command, which was really all he talked about.
Three, he said a successful command meant the band was playing when you took over, and the band was playing when you left.
Four, he summed up fraternization issues in a simple two sentences: "don't f*ck the hired help, and don't f*ck the hired help's wives."
Five, he said "You have to sleep. You just don't have to sleep much." It was true. I never relaxed while in command until I told the admiral I was ready to be relieved. Heck, I had an E trooper in a car accident the morning of the change of command.
Six, He ended the talk by saying "Sometimes shit just happens, and you're the guy in charge. It comes with wearing the command badge. You can't control that. What you can control is that you can go out there and do good, or you can go out there and f*ck it up. It really is your choice to make every minute in command."
All irrelevant in my analogy.
What is really interesting is that the Commodore (the CO's boss for the unwashed) was also onboard.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
My wife and I had a rather lengthy discussion about this last night. It's a sticky, difficult issue.
First, there is the issue of proportionality. If I crash an aircraft, I destroy a multi-million dollar piece of machinery and endanger the lives of maybe 20 people. Surface ships however, are multi-billion dollar pieces of machinery with hundreds of lives on board. I think that probably factors into why a squadron CO doesn't get relieved for an aircraft crashing. If I (as an aircraft commander) crash an aircraft and it's my fault - my quals will be yanked. Now if a squadron has multiple mishaps then I suspect they'll get relieved.
I've never quite understood why the CO is automatically relieved when a ship runs aground. Think about it - the CO has his standing orders, he's asleep in his cabin (which his has to do at some point) and some cocky OOD who thinks his shiphandling skills are better than they are, doesn't wake up the CO in accordance with the CO's standing orders. The CO gets relieved. You could probably argue that it has to do with command climate. Maybe that's the case, maybe it's not. I was just always amazed that it's relieve first, investigate later. I guess that's why it's called "the burden of command."
According to my father (senior chief), it is mostly because the drama and blood letting that follows is such a mess. First off, people get hurt, sometime seriously. Hitting the shore hard isn't any fun. I can only imagine the horror aboard that sub that hit that mountain ridge a few years back. It looked like a vicious hit. Then the ship has to dock which is now a stressful demoralizing production. Naturally, the SWO directly responsible (be it the skipper or some JO) is finished credibility wise as everyone aboard the ship glares angrily at them and speaks unfavorably about their ability to lead as they exit the ship. Who ever did it is now etched in the heads of everyone aboard that ship as a fouler. Now the ship has to be assessed for damage which means the Navy has to allocate and account for hundreds of sailors who now have nothing better to do since they have no ship. Hopefully, no one on that cruise needed the sea duty for promotional reasons (warfare quals and such). At least with a plane crash, it is a whole lot more isolated since it doesn't mean the entire vessel is damage goods and the crew has to be disbursed else where at their expense in some cases (certainly at the Navy's expense). The whole thing is just a mess for the Navy to put up with for a thing that shouldn't normally have happened.
And even simpler answer is that the admiral in charge of that fleet who's ship ran aground could be fired himself. So firing the skipper of that ship is simple damage control for his own career.