Air Force v.s. Navy Culture Differences

[PMPT]

What should one expect from a service that thinks that what makes a good commander is the creation of a lactation room in every office building; that what makes a good NCO is buying and cooking lunch for their Airmen? Spending money to buy votes... ?.

The majority of the Air Force is completely out of touch when it comes to what good NCOs and Officers do- man, train, and equip their units for success in combat.

edit: removed comment since someone else commented above and got a fair response. my bad.

 

[Gatordev]

In the tanker pregnant pilots could fly during the first trimester for sure, possibly into the second for a bit.

I believe it's about the same for Navy non-ejection seat aviators. However I'd argue that someone that's 3 months pregnant still doesn't need a lactation room.

 

[ChuckMK23]

That can also cause some serious issues. I deal with a unit who's deployability suffered because of one particular commander, he retired but returned in ~3 month as a civilian and then continued to exert a significant and detrimental amount of influence over the command. We were trying to figure out how exactly he had swung that but it was not a good thing at all for that command or the platform.

And I misused the word "Vice" when in fact its the "Deputy" Commander that is typically a GS-14/15 CIV in a number of active AF flyinmg orgs (squadrons, groups, wings)

 

[ChuckMK23]

I believe it's about the same for Navy non-ejection seat aviators. However I'd argue that someone that's 3 months pregnant still doesn't need a lactation room.

OK to fly through 28th week of pregnancy..

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588621426159820800

 

[ChuckMK23]

Maybe not if they are those fancy break-down carbines the jet guys get in their seat pans!

Thats the new GAU-5 rifle and its an ejection seat-pan thing only. Cool in its own right. AMC folks seem to all have M4's when they deploy outside CONUS. There is a "crew pack" rifle with 4 magazines. Standard 14" M4 with old school CCO optic. Nothing fancy.

 

[nittany03]

Thats the new GAU-5 rifle and its an ejection seat-pan thing only. Cool in its own right. AMC folks seem to all have M4's when they deploy outside CONUS. There is a "crew pack" rifle with 4 magazines. Standard 14" M4 with old school CCO optic. Nothing fancy.

Frankly a much better idea than the M11/M18, but unfortunately in Navy Air, there seems to be a fairly strong "ooga booga guns scary" undercurrent. I mean, I'm not going to do a cannonball off the deep end on that front like the good General, but still.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Frankly a much better idea than the M11/M18, but unfortunately in Navy Air, there seems to be a fairly strong "ooga booga guns scary" undercurrent. I mean, I'm not going to do a cannonball off the deep end on that front like the good General, but still.

It was a royal PITA to get issued a defensive sidearm - 28 rounds of .45 ACP in 4 magazines (in a plastic MAF bag) and a WW2/Korea era M1911A1. Note the date.

 

[HuggyU2]

HA! That was the start of Desert Storm!

 

[Flash]

Frankly a much better idea than the M11/M18, but unfortunately in Navy Air, there seems to be a fairly strong "ooga booga guns scary" undercurrent. I mean, I'm not going to do a cannonball off the deep end on that front like the good General, but still.

I don't think having a CAG kill a Ready Room chair helped with that though.

 

[Bad_Karma_1310]

I don't think having a CAG kill a Ready Room chair helped with that though.

Wait seriously? Can you share that story for the rest of us young guys?

 

[nittany03]

Wait seriously? Can you share that story for the rest of us young guys?

That was probably over 10 years ago now. As I heard it second- or thirdhand, he chambered a round in an M11 and then tried to thumb the hammer down instead of using the decocking lever for what it was designed for.

As you may already be aware, an M11 has no “safety” per se, but the trigger pull with the hammer down is about double what it is with the hammer cocked. So it’s not unheard of to carry one with a round in the chamber relying on that heavy double-action trigger pull as a safety.

That’s why the M11 has a decocking lever. You rack the slide to chamber a round, then use the decocking lever to lower the hammer. When you do that, there’s a blocking bar in the action that keeps the hammer from hitting the firing pin. Our intrepid CAG decided instead to put his thumb on the hammer, and then pull the trigger and try to lower the hammer that way. So he deactivated the one safety (the blocking bar) that stopped the hammer from hitting the firing pin . . . and then his thumb must have slipped. BLAM.

 

[wink]

That was probably over 10 years ago now. As I heard it second- or thirdhand, he chambered a round in an M11 and then tried to thumb the hammer down instead of using the decocking lever for what it was designed for.

As you may already be aware, an M11 has no “safety” per se, but the trigger pull with the hammer down is about double what it is with the hammer cocked. So it’s not unheard of to carry one with a round in the chamber relying on that heavy double-action trigger pull as a safety.

That’s why the M11 has a decocking lever. You rack the slide to chamber a round, then use the decocking lever to lower the hammer. When you do that, there’s a blocking bar in the action that keeps the hammer from hitting the firing pin. Our intrepid CAG decided instead to put his thumb on the hammer, and then pull the trigger and try to lower the hammer that way. So he deactivated the one safety (the blocking bar) that stopped the hammer from hitting the firing pin . . . and then his thumb must have slipped. BLAM.

Good description of the decocking feature on most DA/SA pistols, like the M11. BUT I'd like to address the qualification "not unheard of" in the following.

So it’s not unheard of to carry one with a round in the chamber relying on that heavy double-action trigger pull as a safety.

This is, of course, condition two. I don't know what condition aircrew are required to carried their pistol in, but there is nothing "unheard of" about carrying a DA/SA or a striker fired (Glock) with one in the tube, hammer down, even without a safety. That is the way the Sig P228/229/M11 was designed to be carried. No serious pistolero would ever carried a modern semi auto chamber empty hammer down. Not a LE agency I have heard of does that. Navy, dunno. They are not serious pistol people ( leadership).

And what is the big deal about no safety? No one bitches about revolvers not having safeties.

 

[Griz882]

And what is the big deal about no safety? No one bitches about revolvers not having safeties.

 

[GroundPounder]

Good description of the decocking feature on most DA/SA pistols, like the M11. BUT I'd like to address the qualification "not unheard of in the following.

This is, of course, condition two. I don't know what condition aircrew are required to carried their pistol in, but there is nothing "unheard of" about carrying a DA/SA or a striker fired (Glock) with one in the tube, hammer down, even without a safety. That is the way the Sig P228/229/M11 was designed to be carried. No serious pistolero would ever carried a modern semi auto chamber empty hammer down. Not a LE agency I have heard of does that. Navy, dunno. They are not serious pistol people ( leadership).

And what is the big deal about no safety? No one bitches about revolvers not having safeties.

Not to be a pendant, but Glocks do have a safeties. They don't have an external safety, which many people feel they must have in order to confidently carry a handgun. I seem to recall that they added an external safety to compete for some contract, but I may be wrong. I personally can't see where the trigger device is considered a safety, but they get away with it. As Grizz882 says above, if you keep your finger off the trigger, everything will be fine.

 

[wink]

Not to be a pendant, but Glocks do have a safeties. They don't have an external safety, which many people feel they must have in order to confidently carry a handgun. I seem to recall that they added an external safety to compete for some contract, but I may be wrong. I personally can't see where the trigger device is considered a safety, but they get away with it. As Grizz882 says above, if you keep your finger off the trigger, everything will be fine.View attachment 37478

Think it was NYC PD that required a manual safety. And I wholly agree, a tiny lever ON the trigger is not much of a safety. I guess it will prevent someone from firing the gun with their fingernail on the outside 1/3 portion of the trigger, so there is that.