Air Force v.s. Navy Culture Differences

[insanebikerboy]

That was probably over 10 years ago now. As I heard it second- or thirdhand, he chambered a round in an M11 and then tried to thumb the hammer down instead of using the decocking lever for what it was designed for.

As you may already be aware, an M11 has no “safety” per se, but the trigger pull with the hammer down is about double what it is with the hammer cocked. So it’s not unheard of to carry one with a round in the chamber relying on that heavy double-action trigger pull as a safety.

That’s why the M11 has a decocking lever. You rack the slide to chamber a round, then use the decocking lever to lower the hammer. When you do that, there’s a blocking bar in the action that keeps the hammer from hitting the firing pin. Our intrepid CAG decided instead to put his thumb on the hammer, and then pull the trigger and try to lower the hammer that way. So he deactivated the one safety (the blocking bar) that stopped the hammer from hitting the firing pin . . . and then his thumb must have slipped. BLAM.

Don’t forget that the corpsmen came in and hooked up an IV to the chair. Apparently the IV was left connected for awhile. That was the icing on the cake.

 

[kmac]

That’s why the M11 has a decocking lever. You rack the slide to chamber a round, then use the decocking lever to lower the hammer. When you do that, there’s a blocking bar in the action that keeps the hammer from hitting the firing pin. Our intrepid CAG decided instead to put his thumb on the hammer, and then pull the trigger and try to lower the hammer that way. So he deactivated the one safety (the blocking bar) that stopped the hammer from hitting the firing pin . . . and then his thumb must have slipped. BLAM.

And that’s how I almost got shot in Afghanistan with an M9. The Second Class I was working with was pretty distraught by the fact that his thumb (covered in CLP) slipped when dropping the hammer, sending a round into the floor near my feet.

 

[Gatordev]

And that’s how I almost got shot in Afghanistan with an M9. The Second Class I was working with was pretty distraught by the fact that his thumb (covered in CLP) slipped when dropping the hammer, sending a round into the floor near my feet.

Wait, doesn't the M9 have a de-cocking lever on the safety as well? It's been years since I shot a 92.

 

[Griz882]

Wait, doesn't the M9 have a de-cocking lever on the safety as well? It's been years since I shot a 92.

Not as initially issued. I’m not sure if some were later converted to the “G” version. In a way it is kind of funny because there is no reason to pull back the hammer on an M9…unless you want to feel cool.

 

[kmac]

Wait, doesn't the M9 have a de-cocking lever on the safety as well? It's been years since I shot a 92.

The one that almost got me did.

Not as initially issued. I’m not sure if some were later converted to the “G” version. In a way it is kind of funny because there is no reason to pull back the hammer on an M9…unless you want to feel cool.

I didn’t know that. I always thought it was either safety/decocker or decocker-only. Either way, my Shipmate was doing the “cool” thing.

 

[Griz882]

The one that almost got me did.

I didn’t know that. I always thought it was either safety/decocker or decocker-only. Either way, my Shipmate was doing the “cool” thing.

Oh, I’ve seen more than one “accidental” discharge caused by being cool…including the wounding of an Afghan colonel by an Army LTC.

 

[sevenhelmet]

And that’s how I almost got shot in Afghanistan with an M9. The Second Class I was working with was pretty distraught by the fact that his thumb (covered in CLP) slipped when dropping the hammer, sending a round into the floor near my feet.

Did he know he had a round in the chamber? That's how I inadvertently put a round into the wall of my basement a couple of years ago. I had stored my P228 in condition 1 and then forgotten I had it loaded- stupid mistake #1. I then (weeks later) took it out of the safe while I was function checking multiple firearms and didn't clear the pistol first- stupid mistake #2. Finally, I pointed it in a safe direction (thank God), and smoothly pulled the trigger- stupid mistake #3.

Imagine my surprise when the gun fired. Thankfully, there are FOUR safety rules, and while I stupidly disregarded one of them, another one (always point your weapon in a safe direction) saved me from any property destruction or worse. The hollow-point bullet hit a bare concrete wall and fragmented. Other than sweeping up the fragments and my ears ringing for about 5 minutes, no harm was done. I won't make that mistake again...

 

[FrankTheTank]

Rule number 1 is to always press check a pistol when touching it for the first time, either from somebody else or not recently shooting, loading or clearing..

 

[wink]

Did he know he had a round in the chamber? That's how I inadvertently put a round into the wall of my basement a couple of years ago. I had stored my P228 in condition 1 and then forgotten I had it loaded- stupid mistake #1. I then (weeks later) took it out of the safe while I was function checking multiple firearms and didn't clear the pistol first- stupid mistake #2. Finally, I pointed it in a safe direction (thank God), and smoothly pulled the trigger- stupid mistake #3.

Imagine my surprise when the gun fired. Thankfully, there are FOUR safety rules, and while I stupidly disregarded one of them, another one (always point your weapon in a safe direction) saved me from any property destruction or worse. The hollow-point bullet hit a bare concrete wall and fragmented. Other than sweeping up the fragments and my ears ringing for about 5 minutes, no harm was done. I won't make that mistake again...

Never say never. And thank God for rule number one. I had an AD when clearing a 30.06 Winchester model 70 in camp. Instead of dropping the base plate and letting the rounds fall out of the magazine, I cycled the action ejecting the rounds. Somehow I got my finger on the trigger about two rounds in. Two or three people were in camp. My son right next to me. The bullet went skyward at about a 45 degree angle. I had the butt on my upper thigh and I felt the recoil right adjacent my groin . Lucky break all around. I'll never forget.

 

[wink]

Rule number 1 is to always press check a pistol when touching it for the first time, either from somebody else or not recently shooting, loading or clearing..

I'd call it a supernumerary #1. It is more of a procedure, but a damn good one. I always taught my kids to do that. I take great pride in doing so whenever in a retail shop and looking at a gun, even when the sales dude clears it. Looking around the counter I can tell it is modeling most folks need to observe and take to heart. And you should always ask before you dry fire another person's gun, even a dealer.

 

[kmac]

Did he know he had a round in the chamber?

Tough to say. He had just reassembled it and presumably was going to perform a function check...with a loaded magazine.

I mean, technically it functioned flawlessly.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Tough to say. He had just reassembled it and presumably was going to perform a function check...with a loaded magazine.

I mean, technically it functioned flawlessly.

AF squadrons have a designated loading and unloading area outside of ALSS - a big steel box where you point the muzzle as you load or unload - box contains a bullet trap to safely absorb an AD.

 

[wink]

Tough to say. He had just reassembled it and presumably was going to perform a function check...with a loaded magazine.

I mean, technically it functioned flawlessly.

In Federal LE training there was no ammo in classroom presentations and the class was queried about ammo presence before lecture or demo. There was also no ammo in the room during cleaning.

Local LE training we never cleaned in training or at the range for requal. That was done at home on your own time. Just don't bring a dirty weapon back to the range. You will regret it!

 

[ChuckMK23]

In Federal LE training there was no ammo in classroom presentations and the class was queried about ammo presence before lecture or demo. There was also no ammo in the room during cleaning.

Local LE training we never cleaned in training or at the range for requal. That was done at home on your own time. Just don't bring a dirty weapon back to the range. You will regret it!

Ask @mad dog about this!!

 

[mad dog]

Ask @mad dog about this!!

Do NOT leave the old Vector light bar on with the engine off…do NOT ask me why I know about this…