All things MV-22 Osprey

[jmcquate]

Old argument Nittany. The Corps is an expeditionary force that can put a little force,but highly effective force with air, arty, and infantry,any where around the world. It's unique to the Corps culture. Despite the national command authority using the Corps as a Ranger division for the last 15 years. That's still what the Corps does.

 

[Hotdogs]

This is also a great example of planning for this war, not the next.

Go on Nittany...

...you were about to predict the future.

Hearing Osprey pilots cream their pants at the opportunity to mount weapons on their aircraft makes me scream on the inside and die a little bit as an attack guy. You can make a fighter an attack aircraft, or vice versa but an assault helicopter will make shitty attack helicopter for various reasons. I think the Russians have proven that self escorting assault support aircraft are not a good idea (Mi-24). Reinventing the wheel.

 

[ChuckMK23]

That money would be better spent on building better readiness/parts we need to get more birds in the air. We don't need to make assault support pilots into shooters.

Apparently your Commandant disagrees? I mean what did you tell the good General when he called to ask your opinion?

 

[phrogdriver]

Go on Nittany...

...you were about to predict the future.

Hearing Osprey pilots cream their pants at the opportunity to mount weapons on their aircraft makes me scream on the inside and die a little bit as an attack guy. You can make a fighter an attack aircraft, or vice versa but an assault helicopter will make shitty attack helicopter for various reasons. I think the Russians have proven that self escorting assault support aircraft are not a good idea (Mi-24). Reinventing the wheel.

This is more of a Harvest Hawk or AC-130 analog than an escort platform, but...

But when Harriers can't provide TOS and UH/AH can't reach, you do what you have to do.

I would hope that the CAS/escort role is broken off into its own sub-community of sort, much like the AFSOC C-130s are, especially the AC-130s. Providing close fires is specialized enough that there just aren't enough training hours to have pilots who are good at assault support and CAS.

All that said, the earlier comment about investing more in aircraft readiness holds true. If a 12-AC squadron becomes, say 8 assaults and 4 strikes, having 25% or more downed aircraft severely limits the MAGTF's lift capacity

 

[Randy Daytona]

Go on Nittany...

...you were about to predict the future.

Hearing Osprey pilots cream their pants at the opportunity to mount weapons on their aircraft makes me scream on the inside and die a little bit as an attack guy. You can make a fighter an attack aircraft, or vice versa but an assault helicopter will make shitty attack helicopter for various reasons. I think the Russians have proven that self escorting assault support aircraft are not a good idea (Mi-24). Reinventing the wheel.

Do you think this is meant as an everyday thing trying to make the V-22 as versatile as the Huey or is this more of a contingency plan in the event the Ospreys go way downrange on a TRAP mission that is out of range of the Cobra?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

This is more of a Harvest Hawk or AC-130 analog than an escort platform, but...

But when Harriers can't provide TOS and UH/AH can't reach, you do what you have to do.

You use the Ospreys to tank or you don't do it

 

[nittany03]

Go on Nittany...

...you were about to predict the future.

If by "predict the future," you mean "predict that we might once again run across this thing called an IADS that keeps you from orbiting over the enemy with impunity," sure.

 

[Pags]

If by "predict the future," you mean "predict that we might once again run across this thing called an IADS that keeps you from orbiting over the enemy with impunity," sure.

Since we might have to fight both types of adversaries in the next 30yrs maybe having both capabilities would be nice.

 

[DocT]

Providing close fires is specialized enough that there just aren't enough training hours to have pilots who are good at assault support and CAS.

All that said, the earlier comment about investing more in aircraft readiness holds true. If a 12-AC squadron becomes, say 8 assaults and 4 strikes, having 25% or more downed aircraft severely limits the MAGTF's lift capacity

This is what I was driving at. There aren't enough flight hours to do this and the rest of the T&R. This "Harvest Plopter" idea is a cart before the horse scenario. We don't have the readiness to do the shit we're currently tasked with let alone an entirely knew skill set.

Now we're starting a .5 SPMAGTF with our current readiness? I just don't think this is helping the real problem.

 

[Hotdogs]

This is more of a Harvest Hawk or AC-130 analog than an escort platform, but...

No I understand you, but mission creep happens, and multi-mission platforms are all the rage right now and have been for sometime. I would not prefer to see it become a permanent mission set for VMM.

If by "predict the future," you mean "predict that we might once again run across this thing called an IADS that keeps you from orbiting over the enemy with impunity," sure.

Oh you were just putting in the plug for EW. Got it.

 

[phrogdriver]

I would like to claim my title as time-traveling magic man for advocating this in 2010, before the Harvest Hawk even existed. Gazette subscribers only. https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/2010/11/mv-22-objective

 

[DocT]

Another good Gazette article that articulates much of the discussion we've been having. However, I didn't write this...I claim no title

https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/2016/04/mv-22

 

[danpass]

Old argument Nittany. The Corps is an expeditionary force that can put a little force,but highly effective force with air, arty, and infantry,any where around the world. It's unique to the Corps culture. Despite the national command authority using the Corps as a Ranger division for the last 15 years. That's still what the Corps does.

A picture perfect moment, bar none, presented itself with Grenada in 1983.

An MAU with a CVBG, nearby and ready to rock.

What happened? According to SecNav Lehman "the tyranny of jointness intervened."



_

 

[Flash]

A picture perfect moment, bar none, presented itself with Grenada in 1983.

An MAU with a CVBG, nearby and ready to rock.

What happened? According to SecNav Lehman "the tyranny of jointness intervened."

Making the operation a 'joint' one was a political decision but one that paid huge benefits in the long run for the military, not really what was intended but a benefit none the less. The Marines didn't exactly do a bang up job during that little adventure either, joint or not. Not many folks at all did.

As for arming the KC-130's and MV-22's, the KC-130 decision makes a lot more sense to me than the MV-22. To an outsider like me the Ospreys are already going to be busy enough doing their main job to really worry about shooting the bad guys, and it isn't exactly a job you can just pick up and do.

 

[danpass]

........... The Marines didn't exactly do a bang up job during that little adventure either, joint or not. Not many folks at all did.
.............

When you've got a full 11-man team on the field, then suddenly have seven extras thrown in, your practiced group is no longer a team.