All things MV-22 Osprey

[Flash]

When you've got a full 11-man team on the field, then suddenly have seven extras thrown in, your practiced group is no longer a team.

Yeah, I get that but Lehman isn't exactly an unbiased commenter and the Marines didn't fail to do things right because other units from other services were doing different things all over the island. It wasn't so much a coordinated invasion than several different operations running in parallel on a small island with the same overarching goal.

Hard lesson were learned by almost everyone involved and they paid dividends 6 years later in Panama and 8 years later in Desert Storm.

Either way I am not sure how armed MV-22's would have helped!

 

[danpass]

The only problem I have with jointness is it's origin, that it cost lives to bring about, to break through parochial interests.

It should only have cost paperwork. In addition lives paid for jointness beforehand with Desert One.

As far as the Osprey, it can be everything ......... until it comes time to put boots on the ground. Then it should stick to transport.

But it shouldn't be everything. Let a drone hover around and link the sensor info. The F-35B has more legs than the Harrier and can provide top cover. Or they can cover only as long as needed for gunships to arrive.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The only problem I have with jointness is it's origin, that it cost lives to bring about, to break through parochial interests.

It should only have cost paperwork. In addition lives paid for jointness beforehand with Desert One.

One man's parochial interests, is another's pride in his service and traditions. There were perfectly good (or at least good-on-paper) reasons for the services fighting jointness. It took real-world messes like Desert One and Grenada to demonstrate the inherent problems, but then, it's always taken wars to prove or disprove theories that sounded good in peacetime. And Goldwater-Nichols, which gave "purple" the force of law in DoD, solved a lot of problems but created others - which is why there's a big effort to revamp and adapt it underway now.

For a good narrative of how jointness happened and how/why the services (particularly the Navy) fought it for so long, I recommend The Twilight War. It's about the US and Iran, but has a great narrative about Eagle Claw and the evolution of CENTCOM.

Sorry for the threadjack. Um...Plopters with rockets would be cool.

 

[danpass]

.........

For a good narrative of how jointness happened and how/why the services (particularly the Navy) fought it for so long, I recommend The Twilight War. It's about the US and Iran, but has a great narrative about Eagle Claw and the evolution of CENTCOM.

Sorry for the threadjack. Um...Plopters with rockets would be cool.

I'll check it out

I thought by now that someone would have said that Plopters should have wing pylons to drop sharks with laser beams (and push a killer whale out the back as a MOAB).

 

[phrogdriver]

As for arming the KC-130's and MV-22's, the KC-130 decision makes a lot more sense to me than the MV-22. To an outsider like me the Ospreys are already going to be busy enough doing their main job to really worry about shooting the bad guys, and it isn't exactly a job you can just pick up and do.

I'm not sure there's any difference there besides the fact that the MV-22 OPTEMPO is greater right now. Why a KC-130 crew can pick it up more easily than an MV-22 crew isn't really apparent to me.

The OPTEMPO piece needs to be addressed in itself. Nevertheless, having a pocket Harvest Hawk available from austere FOBs or amphibious shipping is an impressive capability.

I think the maneuverability of the V-22 is underestimated when comparing it to other R/W platforms. Throw in the lift capacity, speed, and range, and it has the ability to be a lot more than a mini-Harvest Hawk, IF we had the bandwidth to provide the training and equipment to do so.

The Osprey is a victim of its own success. Turns out it does a lot of things well. Maybe we need some more of them.

 

[Flash]

I'm not sure there's any difference there besides the fact that the MV-22 OPTEMPO is greater right now. Why a KC-130 crew can pick it up more easily than an MV-22 crew isn't really apparent to me.

The OPTEMPO piece needs to be addressed in itself. Nevertheless, having a pocket Harvest Hawk available from austere FOBs or amphibious shipping is an impressive capability.....IF we had the bandwidth to provide the training and equipment to do so....

My impression, maybe wrong or not, is that the Osrpeys are doing the assault mission a lot in country and off the boat while the Herks might have some flight time to spare since their cargo and refueling missions can be picked up by other platforms unlike the Osprey's. Again, outside impression.

Whether that impression is wrong or not I still find it a little hard to believe that the Osprey guys and gals are going to find the time to train up to be competent attack platforms on top of the air assault mission. Kind of like adding the DCA mission to EA-18's, sure they can technically do it but it isn't that great an idea and would burn up time and money to train to something other folks I the air wing already do a good job at. In that vein it seems awfully redundant when you already have quite a few dedicated attack aircraft in an LHD/A air group.

 

[phrogdriver]

The point I'm trying to make is that this thing is a good idea...IF we provide the training time and resources to do it properly. It's a good piece of kit. Now we have to find the time to train to use it properly, whether by downscaling our commitments or by increasing the number of aircraft and/or providing the right parts to the ones we have.

 

[Flash]

The point I'm trying to make is that this thing is a good idea...IF we provide the training time and resources to do it properly. It's a good piece of kit. Now we have to find the time to train to use it properly, whether by downscaling our commitments or by increasing the number of aircraft and/or providing the right parts to the ones we have.

A lot of 'ifs' that in today's fiscal and deployment environment are not very realistic.

 

[Pags]

Would probably be a better investment to find some weapon system that doesn't have as high of an aircrew training/prof cost. JDAM and JSOWs for the Princesses!

 

[ChuckMK23]

Navy COD model next to MV-22 - in Navy proposed paint scheme:

 

[kmac]

Navy COD model next to MV-22 - in Navy proposed paint scheme:

Do they have the tails painted as either VRC-3o or VRC-40?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Do they have the tails painted as either VRC-3o or VRC-40?

No, should I apply one - I have a sharpie handy!

 

[ChuckMK23]

Here's the "Hero Card" - squadron markings on tail:

 

[ChuckMK23]

Here's another shot - showing tail:

 

[ChuckMK23]

1 OCT 2014, LHD-8 - VMM-163, YP-13 about to go into the drink, "Aweigh the corrosion control team"