So was everyone else 5 pages ago. The message was out last week, just not on the website.
I find it amazing how many people expend so much energy to not make this the case.
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Another nail in the coffin of Old-School Naval Avaition..
- Thread starter MasterBates
- Start date
So was everyone else 5 pages ago. The message was out last week, just not on the website.
I find it amazing how many people expend so much energy to not make this the case.
For everyone out there perfecting their laminated pocket-sized copy of NAVADMIN 164-12, the DTG is 182102Z MAY 12. Meaning it takes effect Tuesday, 17JUL12.
I realize that it's at the bottom of the post, but seriously... it was posted on Saturday in this thread.
Just for shits and grins, I spent some time today re-reading this entire thread...just to see if we were still on-track with the original discussion. BLUF: You/we are.
But, MAN...this thread is like an undergraduate degree in Naval Aviation history. Aviation Working Greens, Service Dress Khakis, who dropped the Thanh Hoa bridge, etc. I really enjoyed it. Thanks to all.
Me? Always a "uniform geek". As a Naval Aviation Officer Candidate checking in to VT-10 in about September or October of 1971, our (NFO) CO told us (check-in brief) that we were now qualified to wear AWGs. Faster than a newly-promoted USMC Corporal heading to the BX to get his "blood stripes" sewn on, I headed to Abbot's and put a set on my tab. Wore them for the next 30 years, although I admit to not getting the blouse re-striped for CAPT, since it seemed to have shrunk in the closet. But the leather jacket option rocked anyway. Frankly, always thought khaki socks looked goofy with green trousers, but I digress... Loved SDKs as well...beauty of those bad boys was that you could wear them on libs. Wore those regularly until they went away, I guess about the time we lost our brown shoes in the mid-70s. I'm happy to see them back, if only as, I gather, an "optional" uniform. Disagree that they're "just for SWOs". Chicks dig 'em, which is clearly not a SWO impetus to do anything.
I think most Navy squadrons, at least the ones I observed, were far more "standardized" (within the unit) than we're given credit for. Different colored undershirts/FD jerseys/golf shirts of course, but all patches and name tags pretty well controlled...by desire. Even the local FRS classes chose to "standardize"...and looked good, even if the neon-colored class choices then in vogue probably wouldn't pass muster today.
If I may be permitted a "second bottom line"...I think NAVAV Leadership is trying to do the right thing, even if the current solution has some warts on it. Your continued thoughtful feedback is key to helping them get it right, be it color of bags, placement of patches, undershirt colors, etc. None of that is "unimportant" (look at the exception made for NSAWC...), but compliance in the near-term while making a rational case for future unit flexibility is probably the key. I think even the Admirals think they have more important stuff to focus on...but give some of them credit for carrying the water on this issue as far as they have. They didn't have to, after all, but did so because they agree with you. Because ALL of them WERE you. Thanks.
But, MAN...this thread is like an undergraduate degree in Naval Aviation history. Aviation Working Greens, Service Dress Khakis, who dropped the Thanh Hoa bridge, etc. I really enjoyed it. Thanks to all.
Me? Always a "uniform geek". As a Naval Aviation Officer Candidate checking in to VT-10 in about September or October of 1971, our (NFO) CO told us (check-in brief) that we were now qualified to wear AWGs. Faster than a newly-promoted USMC Corporal heading to the BX to get his "blood stripes" sewn on, I headed to Abbot's and put a set on my tab. Wore them for the next 30 years, although I admit to not getting the blouse re-striped for CAPT, since it seemed to have shrunk in the closet. But the leather jacket option rocked anyway. Frankly, always thought khaki socks looked goofy with green trousers, but I digress... Loved SDKs as well...beauty of those bad boys was that you could wear them on libs. Wore those regularly until they went away, I guess about the time we lost our brown shoes in the mid-70s. I'm happy to see them back, if only as, I gather, an "optional" uniform. Disagree that they're "just for SWOs". Chicks dig 'em, which is clearly not a SWO impetus to do anything.
I think most Navy squadrons, at least the ones I observed, were far more "standardized" (within the unit) than we're given credit for. Different colored undershirts/FD jerseys/golf shirts of course, but all patches and name tags pretty well controlled...by desire. Even the local FRS classes chose to "standardize"...and looked good, even if the neon-colored class choices then in vogue probably wouldn't pass muster today.
If I may be permitted a "second bottom line"...I think NAVAV Leadership is trying to do the right thing, even if the current solution has some warts on it. Your continued thoughtful feedback is key to helping them get it right, be it color of bags, placement of patches, undershirt colors, etc. None of that is "unimportant" (look at the exception made for NSAWC...), but compliance in the near-term while making a rational case for future unit flexibility is probably the key. I think even the Admirals think they have more important stuff to focus on...but give some of them credit for carrying the water on this issue as far as they have. They didn't have to, after all, but did so because they agree with you. Because ALL of them WERE you. Thanks.
Yessir. I don't think anyone's not giving leadership their due for finally making this happen...more eye-rolling at how unnecessarily complicated someone thinks it needs to be, apparently. Not to mention how difficult it seems to be to write a coherent message on something as simple as what patches are to be worn.
It's a great day, comrades...they just had to make it so Navy.
It's a great day, comrades...they just had to make it so Navy.
The genesis was a statement in the uniform regulations that stated left shoulder could be flag or graduate level aircrew patch, like WTI or TPS. Ever since all of these [recent] changes to flight suits started coming down the line, it is now clear that the goal was to stop the graduate level patch from going on your left shoulder (old tradition from TACAIR when you wore WTI on left and airframe on the right). The last few years have seen more quibbling over "what the regs actually state" all because the poor SOB that drafted the first message apparently didn't enjoy a high school level proficiency in grammar, and authored some of the most horribly indirect verbology which has since been further obfuscated into what the most recent NAVADMIN says. Ergo, your confusion.
Speaking of the origin of this thread, did anyone else appreciate the irony of AWG's hasty departure to "save money" and then the [nearly] immediate reinstatement of SDK, only to have it relegated to the optional pile. Why couldn't we just have AWG carry on as optional?!?!?!I'm happy to see them back, if only as, I gather, an "optional" uniform. Disagree that they're "just for SWOs". Chicks dig 'em, which is clearly not a SWO impetus to do anything.
In a very fortuitous turn of events, my typsy gypsy patches just arrived today, just in time to have them on the leather jacket that is the only jacket approved for off-base wear with this policy change. I have honestly never once worn my leather jacket (have always worn the light or heavy nomex jackets I was issued), so hopefully I can break it in this coming fall/winter.
I don't think the NOMEX jackets were ever approved for off base wear, even though everyone wore them to/from work.
Yes, I just meant that I have never had a reason to wear the leather jacket until now.
If you count the day of release, 60 days is actually Wednesday July 11th, otherwise it is Thursday, July 12th. How did you come up with July 17th?
Thanks for the insight sir. I think we are all on the same page. We are all very happy with the bottom line of the new rules, just a little confused as to why our traditions had to be removed in the process. In the F-18 community it isn't (wasn't) arbitrary which sleeve your patches are on. Not that any of it really matters, but then again it doesn't really matter what color our t-shirts are either.
Because we had a CNO who wanted to bring the SDK back. Did you notice that the only time Roughead seemed to wear them was when he was standing with CJCS who was wearing them.
About the only way we are getting AWG back is to either:
A. Get a brownshoe as CNO
B. Get MB appointed as SECNAV
Now, if I was a betting man, I know which one I'd lay my money on...